Where to buy land for horses in CO (Denver, Colorado Springs: environment, estate)

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Catherine D

... seems we lean towards Durango, 4 corners area or Grand Junction, now. But...we already have our plane tickets for March 1-4 into Denver, so we'll be taking a look around the front range. We won't be able to make it back until my daughter gets out of school in June. We'll then look south and West and take a week or so.... Thanks! Catherine

Sunsprit gives good advice. In 1995 we flew into Denver, drove too Durango. Took ALL day to get there. We enjoyed the trip, stopping at many antique stores as we drove diagonally across the state. It was my first time in this state, and I was awestruck, knew I'd be back someday - to stay.

If your tickets are for Denver, for only 1-4 March, save the south and west areas for a later visit. With only 4 days, including flying time, you should see the Front Range. By all means line-up a realtor, should easily double what you accomplish, you owe them nothing. I'm not a realtor, but am a real believer, the good solid pro's are truly like having money in the bank.....

There is great horse country all along the Front Range, you may be able to find your happiness here.

Travel suggestion. Get on the "ding" feature of Southwest Airlines. My little sis is coming here from Baltimore in April, cost her $110 r/t including all taxes and fees. When they send you the daily 'ding' in your inbox, you usually have but 3-5 hours to make the deal on these fares, but it may enable you to get out here often to look around....it enables my sis to see her grandkids in FL several times a year for fares like $48 one way....

s/Mike

[Nadine]

I am in Fremont County near Canon City as I said on the Arkansas River. We do have a good growing season. At one time this was an ag. area with orchards, apples, cherries, peaches etc. So irrigation was established. We still have it but large irrigated places are not easy to find. As I said ranches are breaking up into building sites and some of them are large but usual is building and drilling of wells. All types of land on these irrigated and dry land. I don't know the prices but the cheaper are not going to have irrigation available. I have 1 horse now, but have had up to 3 in the past. I only have 2 acres. One is hay/pasture. I take one cutting and that is usually enough for winter, pasture the rest of the time. But I am irrigated. I rotate from one fenced side to the other every week when we get water. So it is sprinkled every 2 weeks about 4 hr setting per. That usually gives me pasture into the winter too. My horses have all been easy keepers so to control their diet, I may have to only let them graze 2-3 hrs a day. When I had 3 horses again they were controlled grazing but I had leased another 4 acres. My hay is all grass so I give alfalfa pellet/cubes and because camping in the NF with horses you must have certified hay or pellets. I want them used to them. Lots of trails, especially if haul to my favorite place, the base of the San De Cristos. There is a trail that runs over 100 miles at the base and most of the other trails going up have their trail heads on it. Makes of wonderful camping, fishing and riding. Only 50 miles away but it is only 5 miles to NF from me and other trails that can be ridden earlier and later in the yr. My dream all my life was to live in the Wet Mountain Valley. But you live where your jobs are. The commute was not an option for us. That is 8000 ft altitude and short growing season. We cut hay 3 times a yr. They cut once just to give you an idea.

[sunsprit]

CatherineD .... it's an interesting note from Nadine.

Please note the important details that she relates which may not be readily apparent to someone not from the area:

She lives on 2 IRRIGATED Acres at a lower altitude in a very productive ag valley (good soil, good climate for "stone fruit trees"). Her grass hay production is enough with careful management and supplemental feeding to support only one (easy keeper) horse.

With the break-up of the ranches/farms in the area, it is unlikely that you will be able to purchase (1) a large parcel, and (2) IRRIGATION Water rights(which most likely has been sold off to other interests).

Nadine's 2 acres hardly gives room to ride on your own place except for a round pen. Fortuately, she has excellent access to NF's and great trails.

[Catherine D]

That's just it, I don't know either! I suspected that Rollingsville might be at high elevations. I found that equine develpment on line.

My father in-law lives at an elevation of 10,000 feet on Snowmass. It's too high with very long winters. Carbondale was great at an elevation of 6,700 feet. the reason we sold was we had purchased a lot on a golf course in "River Valley Ranch" and decided that we really want some land and horses.

We presently live on 10 acres on a very private lake in west MI. And have learned to really love the space. And...having horse at home is something we haven't done. You only live once, right?!

Again, i appreciate the input and can only pray that when the time comes we don't purchase a bad piece of property??? Develpements seem to be a safer way to go out there. And...there seems to be quite a few equine develpements. I have learned to ask about irrigation. What would 5 shares of irrigation water mean?

It sounds like you know what your talking about. I guess I should talk with neighbors of what ever land we end up wanting to put an offer on???

Thanks again to all!
Catherine

[sunsprit]

a "share of irrigation water" means that the owner has a portion of the available water through an irrigation water storage or ditch supply company.

the maximum amount of water is dependent upon how many acre feet of seasonal water the company owns and how many "shares" they've issued.

functionally, however, a "share" can only deliver the amount of water which actually becomes available each year.

So, you must ask what the amount of water is (acre-feet), for how long it is available (months of irrigation use), and how the water is delivered and for how much time is available at your site. Additionally, you should ask how much water has actually been available in the last few years and what the projections are for the upcoming season. Ask, too, what the cost per share is for the season.

Generally, you will be charged an annual fee for the shares each "season" regardless of how much water is actually available and how much of your share water you actually take.

In Colorado, you are able to sell your "shares" at anytime on the open market.

Our dream was to keep our horses at home, have privacy, and room to ride. We couldn't afford to do it in Colorado, so purchased a farm/ranch in Wyoming, just over the Colorado border. We wanted to be able raise our own hay, and expand into goat and sheep production.

We now operate organically, and supply our own feed to our expanding livestock herds. We raise our own pork, beef, lamb, ducks, geese, and chicken, and have enough production to sell "natural" lamb direct to executive chefs/catering operations.

We took a substantial pay cut to do this, but it's worth it to us. In time, we believe that the lamb and hay production will be enough to support us.

Of course, it requires a lot more land than 40 acres to do this. You have to find the balance of land between how much work you can do by yourselves vs having to hire help to run the operation.

The big benefit is being able to take care of our horses at home and go trail riding right off our own doorstep.

Good luck on your homesite search in Denver.

[Nadine]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

CatherineD .... it's an interesting note from Nadine.

Please note the important details that she relates which may not be readily apparent to someone not from the area:

She lives on 2 IRRIGATED Acres at a lower altitude in a very productive ag valley (good soil, good climate for "stone fruit trees"). Her grass hay production is enough with careful management and supplemental feeding to support only one (easy keeper) horse.

With the break-up of the ranches/farms in the area, it is unlikely that you will be able to purchase (1) a large parcel, and (2) IRRIGATION Water rights(which most likely has been sold off to other interests).

Nadine's 2 acres hardly gives room to ride on your own place except for a round pen. Fortuately, she has excellent access to NF's and great trails.

You are not quit correct in what you say. I also have access to the 2 miles of river trail that allows horses. Which is ridden to. I also can ride to the trails that are only 5 miles away and getting there are back roads. I do not ride around and around in arenas or round pens, been there done that when I showed. But I can ride or haul 2 miles to the Rodeo grounds to ride in an arena if I wish. There are unpaved country roads that are safe to ride on. We are a small town with lots of areas or roads to ride close. Don't have to ride on our own land. Personally I don't like riding even country roads but if desperate, I do, LOL winter usually.
As to the irrigation---many people feel as I do and will not strip the land of irrigation. Many of these ranches that are dividing up DO have irrigation rights on the land if you want to buy them. On my ditch, you cannot sell the water off the land. You can return it to the ditch company but the ditch company can only sell rights to people on land served by this ditch. At this time even leasing is not allowed. Hope it stays that way. There are a number ditches that are that way. Not all irrigation water comes from the river. Some are from tributaries. Some wells are allowed for irrigation in some areas but only old grand fathered in ones. So far right here people are smart enough to protect their water. Down the road a few miles some were not so smart yrs ago. Even farther they are not smart now.---I guess what I am trying to say. These places are still here but they will not be cheap and it possible to get by with less land and pay more for land with water. There still are places like mine for sale and some with a little more land too. But not the 30 or 40 acres. Those are mostly old ranches breaking up to build on with no city water. I am on city water and sewer even tho I am zoned agriculture, taxed sparse living residential. My home is an old farm house. Not one of these want-be-mansions that people seem to want today. But they are here too. My altitude is just under 6000 ft. Bumped against the Wet Mountains on the east side.

[Nadine]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

a "share of irrigation water" means that the owner has a portion of the available water through an irrigation water storage or ditch supply company.

the maximum amount of water is dependent upon how many acre feet of seasonal water the company owns and how many "shares" they've issued.

functionally, however, a "share" can only deliver the amount of water which actually becomes available each year.

So, you must ask what the amount of water is (acre-feet), for how long it is available (months of irrigation use), and how the water is delivered and for how much time is available at your site. Additionally, you should ask how much water has actually been available in the last few years and what the projections are for the upcoming season. Ask, too, what the cost per share is for the season.

Generally, you will be charged an annual fee for the shares each "season" regardless of how much water is actually available and how much of your share water you actually take.

In Colorado, you are able to sell your "shares" at anytime on the open market.

Our dream was to keep our horses at home, have privacy, and room to ride. We couldn't afford to do it in Colorado, so purchased a farm/ranch in Wyoming, just over the Colorado border. We wanted to be able raise our own hay, and expand into goat and sheep production.

We now operate organically, and supply our own feed to our expanding livestock herds. We raise our own pork, beef, lamb, ducks, geese, and chicken, and have enough production to sell "natural" lamb direct to executive chefs/catering operations.

We took a substantial pay cut to do this, but it's worth it to us. In time, we believe that the lamb and hay production will be enough to support us.

Of course, it requires a lot more land than 40 acres to do this. You have to find the balance of land between how much work you can do by yourselves vs having to hire help to run the operation.

The big benefit is being able to take care of our horses at home and go trail riding right off our own doorstep.

Good luck on your homesite search in Denver.

All ditches in Colorado can be different but not all can sell or lease their water. Give back to company or some might be able to sell it only to the company or other people on the same ditch. When we bought this land many yrs ago. We talked to people who had been using the ditch for many yrs. Got the rules from the ditch company. True you always pay per share no matter. The usually is a maintenance fee also. Some are more costly than others. Cost can change too. Not all ditches are equal. There are different "River Call Dates" too. That is when the ditch was set up who has first call on the water is if water is low. Of coarse the earlier the call the better. That is true on tributaries too. That is the same on all. I know this sounds complicated but really is not. You clean ditches and to make sure water can get thro sometimes you clean more than runs by your land, main ditches the company is supposed to keep clean. There are lazy, thoughless people out there. Like breaking down ditches by letting animals walk on them or throwing grass clippings in that plugs up pumps. Animals should be fenced away. It is the same o same o. Rude people that only think about themselves. No different. We have been here on this place 40 yrs. The truth is, we have had more trouble with new people that will not learn the rules and talk to old timers to find out where the water comes from, walk the ditches, learn the different divisions etc. Some come from places that water is not so precious. And they think they can use it anytime it runs past their place. Not so. Have had people take water that didn't have any water rights. Even with the problems, irrigation is cheaper than trying to even water a lawn from city water and raw water is better for the plants and certainly makes land worth more.

[Catherine D]

Nadine, Thank you! you've given me alot in which to base my priorities while out there looking. i really didn't know ANY of this. I'd see things about water in listings but didn't know what it meant. In MI too much water is our problem I personally have about 6 acres of wetland LOL and wells are shallow (mine is only 60 ft.)

Also, you've shared with me how to be a respectful neighbor should i realize my dream and live there one day.

I'm also guessing hay must cost more there because of the lack of rain. we hay and grain feed our horses here completely. i board my horse and lease two others from a friend who has on avg. 25 horses at her little farm. they are pastured on around 10 acres. certainly not enough to support them at all. quite frankly, here it's hard just dealing with the mudd.

looks like I'm going to have learn a lot more about keeping a couple of horses in CO!??

Isn't life interesting

thanks,
Catherine

[Nadine]

Originally Posted by Catherine D

Nadine, Thank you! you've given me alot in which to base my priorities while out there looking. i really didn't know ANY of this. I'd see things about water in listings but didn't know what it meant. In MI too much water is our problem I personally have about 6 acres of wetland LOL and wells are shallow (mine is only 60 ft.)

Also, you've shared with me how to be a respectful neighbor should i realize my dream and live there one day.

I'm also guessing hay must cost more there because of the lack of rain. we hay and grain feed our horses here completely. i board my horse and lease two others from a friend who has on avg. 25 horses at her little farm. they are pastured on around 10 acres. certainly not enough to support them at all. quite frankly, here it's hard just dealing with the mudd.

looks like I'm going to have learn a lot more about keeping a couple of horses in CO!??

Isn't life interesting

thanks,
Catherine

Yes but change can be fun. I was so surprised to see people mowing their pastures and not putting into hay at my cousins in Central KS. They don't have to irriagate either. Mow a pasture! Boy not here. Put the animals in. LOL Hay on good years run about 4-5 dollars small square bale.60 +lbs. Right now it is about 8 dollars. Lots of alfalfa is raised because it does not need as much water is heat tolerant. We can get to a 100 sometimes not the norm. But feels much cooler than humid. We use a swamp cooler to cool our house. Again at my cousins they were worring about being dry and it not raining. I got up in the morn and ask if it rained in the night. They looked at me like I was not quite all there. No they said why would I think so. Because the trees were dripping. Thats dew! Dew! Dripping trees? --ha you don't know what dry is. Trees only drip when it rains.

[sunsprit]

Perhaps Nadine will be so kind as to share with the rest of us exactly what variety of ALFALFA takes less water than grass hay.

If it's for real, I'll be ripping out a couple hundred acres of my irrigated alfalfa that is exceptionally water intensive to replace it with this special stuff ....