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I think people just need to accept this is a 50-100 year deal that will have to play itself out.
Same thing happened to the American Chestnut tree back east in the 1800-1900's.
I tend to think the beetle was natures way of clearing the forest as no one would let forest fires burn. The forests had to regenerate and this is what happened.
And yes there will be a mega fire. People just need to accept that will happen.
While Colorado will look different than the Colorado I grew up with for the rest of my lifetime, I am not worried.
The reason I am not worried is because of what I have seen in New England and PA. Where I live for everywhere around here starting in 1820, they began cutting every tree down in sight. Pretty much by 1910, except for a few isolated strands of forest, everything was gone. I've seen pictures and it looks like a nuke went off. The bike trail I ride on used to be a railroad from bringing all the cut trees out of the mountains. Now 100 years later the forest is back and as the decades goes on, gets more dense and "virgin".
Same with Colorado. The earth is ever changing and renews itself. I think us humans need to recognize that and not interfere when it does. It has up and down cycles and it's all for a reason. Humans want to see things fixed in place and the earth doesn't work like that.
Yeah. Another thing that most people don't realize that 'Global Warming' as most people know it is just a flipping hoax created by the government. The earth naturally fluctuates between high-low temps. In fact we are coming out of an ice age still, and geologically speaking the 'hot' temperatures we are having right now would be considered balmy compared to what earth has had in the past. Nature isn't a constant, but many humans don't like that and when they try to change that...nature bites back.
Yeah. Another thing that most people don't realize that 'Global Warming' as most people know it is just a flipping hoax created by the government. The earth naturally fluctuates between high-low temps. In fact we are coming out of an ice age still, and geologically speaking the 'hot' temperatures we are having right now would be considered balmy compared to what earth has had in the past. Nature isn't a constant, but many humans don't like that and when they try to change that...nature bites back.
I firmly believe that a lot of things are blamed on "global warming" that have nothing to do with it. I also believe that there are plenty of unscrupulous folks willing to use global warming as an excuse to further an agenda. All of that said, I don't think we can burn gargantuan amounts of carbonaceous fuels in little more than a century that took Mother Nature tens of millions of years or more to sequester in the earth and not have it do SOMETHING to the climate. The people who wish to believe that global warming is a complete hoax have no greater scientific basis upon which to base their conclusions than those who believe that greenhouse gases are a serious problem do. The jury is still out, but we do know is that the short-term climate in many places worldwide is warming significantly, and that portends some bad things for the status quo of our natural environment. The beetle-kill phenomena is just a little sign of that.
I firmly believe that a lot of things are blamed on "global warming" that have nothing to do with it. I also believe that there are plenty of unscrupulous folks willing to use global warming as an excuse to further an agenda. All of that said, I don't think we can burn gargantuan amounts of carbonaceous fuels in little more than a century that took Mother Nature tens of millions of years or more to sequester in the earth and not have it do SOMETHING to the climate. The people who wish to believe that global warming is a complete hoax have no greater scientific basis upon which to base their conclusions than those who believe that greenhouse gases are a serious problem do. The jury is still out, but we do know is that the short-term climate in many places worldwide is warming significantly, and that portends some bad things for the status quo of our natural environment. The beetle-kill phenomena is just a little sign of that.
There is plenty of data out there but it has been cooling since 2002 with a sharp decline since 2007. I think we are entering another 30-40 cooling phase much like the one we were in back from 1940-1978.
I remember reading about some tree core sampling done from a few old trees in Colorado that were over 2000 years old and Colorado since then, tends to fluctuate between 40 year cycles of cool and warm. The oldest tree in Colorado is on Mt. Evans I believe and is around 2400 years old.
Scientists have gone down the CO2 track blindly and it appears that actually water vapor and clouds play a much bigger role that CO2 could ever hope for.
In any case, I'm not worried. Colorado forests have been nearly wiped out before. I remember reading somewhere that around 1450-1500 there was a similar type event in Colorado and of course the forest recovered. It's too late to do anything anyways, so let nature take it's course.
I'll put this as succinctly as possible: mankind has adversely affected our global climate, significantly.
You needn't believe me on this either. There is plenty of hard, well studied, scientific proof to back up such an assertion. Those that don't wish to believe this, won't. Anyone else wishing the facts of the matter could begin by referring to some of my former posts, which provide plenty of sound references. Otherwise, look it up yourself.
"Of course, no man is entirely in his right mind at any time."
- Mark Twain, 'The Mysterious Stranger'
I'll put this as succinctly as possible: mankind has adversely affected our global climate, significantly.
You needn't believe me on this either. There is plenty of hard, well studied, scientific proof to back up such an assertion. Those that don't wish to believe this, won't. Anyone else wishing the facts of the matter could begin by referring to some of my former posts, which provide plenty of sound references. Otherwise, look it up yourself.
"Of course, no man is entirely in his right mind at any time."
- Mark Twain, 'The Mysterious Stranger'
Wouldn't matter if we did or didn't at the end of the day. We are a part of the earth, not below it. And it's not going to stop the pine beetle, nor the eventual fire, nor the rebirth of forest at some point. Co2 is a trace gas that you exhale every time you breath. It is not a poison in the form it exists in the atmosphere.
I think humans like to think we can control and master the universe, but I really don't think we have that much say. I think that is why people get in a frenzy when they see Haiti and see that the world's governments can't make everything peachy by Monday. They'd like to think they can set the thermostat of the world or stop the ground shaking or even stop the pine beetle but deep down inside they know they can't and I think that scares them.
Since I am forced to watch Denver news, I noticed they took a break from reporting Aurora murders to say the pine beetle infestation has peaked and they ran out of food and will go somewhere else.
I think people just need to accept this is a 50-100 year deal that will have to play itself out.
Same thing happened to the American Chestnut tree back east in the 1800-1900's.
I tend to think the beetle was natures way of clearing the forest as no one would let forest fires burn. The forests had to regenerate and this is what happened.
And yes there will be a mega fire. People just need to accept that will happen.
While Colorado will look different than the Colorado I grew up with for the rest of my lifetime, I am not worried.
The reason I am not worried is because of what I have seen in New England and PA. Where I live for everywhere around here starting in 1820, they began cutting every tree down in sight. Pretty much by 1910, except for a few isolated strands of forest, everything was gone. I've seen pictures and it looks like a nuke went off. The bike trail I ride on used to be a railroad from bringing all the cut trees out of the mountains. Now 100 years later the forest is back and as the decades goes on, gets more dense and "virgin".
Same with Colorado. The earth is ever changing and renews itself. I think us humans need to recognize that and not interfere when it does. It has up and down cycles and it's all for a reason. Humans want to see things fixed in place and the earth doesn't work like that.
I think you have some valid points, however, many of these changes are directly related to us humans. By stating "us humans need to recognize that and not interfer when it does," discounts the fact that humans played a major role in the changes to begin with.
PA forest types are very different that CO forests. First of all, much of the NE was covered in coniferous forests before they were logged off and hardwoods moved in. Whether that was good or bad I can't say, but humans changed that forest type. Luckily for the NE, the soil and moisture conditions were such that the forests could return, even if the forest type changed. In CO, this is not the case. Our soil and moisture conditions can barely support the current vegetation. Without fire, a natural forest thinner, we now have beetles. Unfortunately, because the ecosystem is so out of check in the first place, the beetles are wiping entire stands of trees out, instead of just thinning out the old and weak. I am one who accepts this, but I also think if proper management would have been done in the first place, we wouldn't have to see this. Just my two cents!
I think you have some valid points, however, many of these changes are directly related to us humans. By stating "us humans need to recognize that and not interfer when it does," discounts the fact that humans played a major role in the changes to begin with.
PA forest types are very different that CO forests. First of all, much of the NE was covered in coniferous forests before they were logged off and hardwoods moved in. Whether that was good or bad I can't say, but humans changed that forest type. Luckily for the NE, the soil and moisture conditions were such that the forests could return, even if the forest type changed. In CO, this is not the case. Our soil and moisture conditions can barely support the current vegetation. Without fire, a natural forest thinner, we now have beetles. Unfortunately, because the ecosystem is so out of check in the first place, the beetles are wiping entire stands of trees out, instead of just thinning out the old and weak. I am one who accepts this, but I also think if proper management would have been done in the first place, we wouldn't have to see this. Just my two cents!
Yes as I said if we would have just let fires burn to begin with I don't think we would be where we are at now. I think the dense stands of trees contributed to the beetle jumping from tree to tree, among other factors.
And I do think the forests will regenerate over time.
I think the pine beetle is natures way of thinning out the forest since we haven't let forest fires burn for 80 years. Natural forest fires also kept the beetle in check.
Correct. And it has zilch to do with (now dis-proven) "Killer Anthropogenic Global Warming."
Correct. And it has zilch to do with (now dis-proven) "Killer Anthropogenic Global Warming."
At best, that statement is only partially true. There is unarguable evidence that the pine beetle's spread has been encouraged by years of warmer winter temperatures in the Colorado Rockies--which have allowed huge numbers of beetles to over-winter that "normal" colder temperatures would have killed. The big question is whether those warmer winter temperatures are from natural climatic variation or caused in whole or in part from greenhouse gases caused by massive burning of fossil fuels. In my view, the jury is still out on that. Whatever the cause, the beetles have "won"--the trees are dead, and nature's cure--fire--is going to be the result.
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