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Old 01-20-2010, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,841 posts, read 18,940,525 times
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jazzlover wrote:
I don't think we can burn gargantuan amounts of carbonaceous fuels in little more than a century that took Mother Nature tens of millions of years or more to sequester in the earth and not have it do SOMETHING to the climate.
Anyone who denies the validity of this statement is an idiot IMO. No matter what name history assigns to this SOMETHING, I don't think it is likely to be a joy ride.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Rhode Island (Splash!)
1,150 posts, read 2,690,417 times
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The deft researchers over at Northern Arizona University have developed a potential potent new weapon against the bark beetles. In the laboratory, they've been blasting the beetles with different sounds, including loud cuts of Charles Manson's "Cease To Exist" and late great Beach Boy Dennis Wilson's less well known singles like "Don't Borrow My Ferrari Again, Stinkin' Hippies" and "I Paid For Your VD Treatments, Now Get Lost". Apparently when exposed to the right frequency of strained yodelings from lesser known pop stars of years past, the beetles voraciously attach and dismember each other.

Catch the full story on 9Snooze: 9NEWS.com | Denver | Colorado's Online News Leader | Bark beetles' song could save forests
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:24 PM
 
Location: USA
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Alaska has a similar issue caused by the bark beetle...... not sure if its a related beetle as the one here but its having the same effect there.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Earth
1,649 posts, read 4,333,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psalm25 View Post
Alaska has a similar issue caused by the bark beetle...... not sure if its a related beetle as the one here but its having the same effect there.
I recall the conductor on our train from Anchorage to Seward commenting on that 10yrs ago when we were there. It looked pretty bad...I can't imagine what it looks like now.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:50 PM
 
90 posts, read 261,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy View Post
The deft researchers over at Northern Arizona University have developed a potential potent new weapon against the bark beetles. In the laboratory, they've been blasting the beetles with different sounds, including loud cuts of Charles Manson's "Cease To Exist" and late great Beach Boy Dennis Wilson's less well known singles like "Don't Borrow My Ferrari Again, Stinkin' Hippies" and "I Paid For Your VD Treatments, Now Get Lost". Apparently when exposed to the right frequency of strained yodelings from lesser known pop stars of years past, the beetles voraciously attach and dismember each other.

Catch the full story on 9Snooze: 9NEWS.com | Denver | Colorado's Online News Leader | Bark beetles' song could save forests
Thanks for the link. I am always learning from you CD folks. ...the manipulated beetle sounds make them tear each other up! Hurry and invest in sound systems if it proves to be a viable solution.
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Old 03-01-2010, 02:07 AM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,963,975 times
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Wink 57 million acres

This was a brief segment on the NBC nightly news concerning the effects of mountain pine beetles in British Columbia:
msnbc.com Video Player

If Colorado has and continues to suffer the effects of this outbreak, British Columbia has thus far even more. Last I'd heard they had 33 million acres of forest affected, with it now having reportedly increased to 57 million. As I recall the total thus far in Colorado is more like 2.5 million acres, but save in scale the overall effects are much the same, with the same type of trees and bugs involved. Thus those interested may find this an interesting recap of what is transpiring from Mexico through the US well into Canada.

The fellow from the First Nation indian group apparently hasn't done his homework, his suggestion of a firebreak of sorts entirely pointless. These bugs can fly perfectly well, known to travel as far as 50 miles at a time. The consensus is nothing will stop the mountain pine beetle until they have fed on and killed most every lodgepole pine in sight, some other species as well, and then die back to normal levels. In isolated instances specific trees can be saved through careful annual spraying with toxic chemicals, but this wholly impractical for forests of an entire continent. Severe cold at the right time of season would also kill many back, but given our changing climate this less and less likely, and indeed why this is occurring in the first place.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:36 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,382,708 times
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I got another interesting perspective from this from a conversation with another forester I know. He regards the lodgepole as sort of "junk" or "weed" tree in the sense that, in the Rocky Mountain West, it is typically a subclimax pioneer tree in disturbed areas. He correctly noted that pure lodgepole stands tend to be ecological deserts for most other plant species, because the dense overgrowth of trees monopolizes both sunlight and soil nutrients where they grow. So, he views the die off (and burning) of the lodgepole forests as an overall beneficial ecological event--he just wishes that the fires had been allowed to burn earlier and more often--too prevent the massive fuel buildup in the extensive acreages of dying lodgepole that we now have occurring all at once. His wry comment was the the US Forest Service really should be out STARTING fires in the lodgepole forests, instead of just continually wasting the taxpayers money to put them out. As to all the man-made crap that has been built in the lodgepole forests, he holds the same opinion that I do--"If they do the crime, let 'em do the time"; in other words, let it burn, too. A very abject lesson in building in the "Stupid Zones" (as Denver Post columnist Ed Quillen likes to call them) that would likely not be soon forgotten.
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Old 03-01-2010, 12:27 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,595,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I got another interesting perspective from this from a conversation with another forester I know. He regards the lodgepole as sort of "junk" or "weed" tree in the sense that, in the Rocky Mountain West, it is typically a subclimax pioneer tree in disturbed areas. He correctly noted that pure lodgepole stands tend to be ecological deserts for most other plant species, because the dense overgrowth of trees monopolizes both sunlight and soil nutrients where they grow. So, he views the die off (and burning) of the lodgepole forests as an overall beneficial ecological event--he just wishes that the fires had been allowed to burn earlier and more often--too prevent the massive fuel buildup in the extensive acreages of dying lodgepole that we now have occurring all at once. His wry comment was the the US Forest Service really should be out STARTING fires in the lodgepole forests, instead of just continually wasting the taxpayers money to put them out. As to all the man-made crap that has been built in the lodgepole forests, he holds the same opinion that I do--"If they do the crime, let 'em do the time"; in other words, let it burn, too. A very abject lesson in building in the "Stupid Zones" (as Denver Post columnist Ed Quillen likes to call them) that would likely not be soon forgotten.
Nature has it's own way of fixing things, even if it takes a while. And sometimes that change is good anyways.

I don't agree with this attitude though that somehow forests are some sanctified place where no one can live. Where do people live then? That whole attitude smacks of elitism. Where does that guy live? Does he apologize everyday for the land his home sits on? So if it's a crime then where is everyone supposed to live and why?
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:53 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,963,975 times
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Wink Whitebark Pine

Something I didn't mention, but have before, is that while the effects of the mountain pine beetle are largely confined to lodgepole pine trees and the Rocky Mountain West, that the causes of this epidemic are global.

This past summer I spent some time at Crater Lake National Park, in south central Oregon, and was surprised to see the predominant lodgepole pine in the lower elevations of this park to apparently healthy. This observation might be extended to the entire Pacific region from British Columbia to Mexico. Yet in spending some time there and in discussion with park personnel learned that all is not well. Their primary concern at the moment is with the decline of the Whitebark Pine, which inhabits the highest elevations of this beautiful park. A substancial percentage of these trees are being killed by a fungus. I was informed that the belief is global warming has upset the balance of the ecosystem there, causing this. More information might be gained here (with a pdf version also available if looked for):
Status of Whitebark Pine in Crater Lake National Park

In also visiting the Sierra Nevada further south I was distressed in discovering more dead and dying trees than previously observed, or one might expect. This is as yet nowhere near as widespread or readily apparent as such places as Summit County in Colorado. But our unfortunate circumstances here should prove as a sign, not considered as a unique and unfortunate accident. Whether Colorado or Oregon, or the far side of the world, all life on this planet exists within a certain balance. Change that and all else changes.
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Old 03-02-2010, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 5,255,496 times
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The temperatures on the planet also have a periodic ebb and flow that long predates any potential man-made cause. All the angst about effects of warming can't prevent the natural phenomena that produced both ice ages and tropical weather at far northern latitudes in several well-known geologically-recent cycles.

So that balance is constantly changing, regardless of man's puny impact on a grander cosmic scale. One medium-sized volcanic eruption spews more CO2 into the atmosphere than all the cars on the planet do in a year. May I suggest we stick Al Gore's fat a** into a Yellowstone geyser vent and do some real good for mankind?

So let's not be fooled into accepting that lodgepole and whitebark pines owe all their troubles to us. As the global warming cycle goes back on the uptick from forces far larger than we can muster for good or for bad, that'll be the least of our worries.
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