Wanting to move to a smaller town in CO (Pueblo: taxes, standard of living)

[CosmicWizard]

Josseppie wrote:

California people are more then welcome to come to Pueblo,

jazzlover responded:

I know a number of Pueblans who would not agree with that . . .

jazz, your statement proves the old adage....Birds of a feather flock together!

[Shuffler]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

That makes absolutely no sense. The great depression was much worse then our economy is now and even during those hard times places like Pueblo was focused on growth.

In fact that is when Pueblo leaders started a college at the county building that would eventually branch off to become Pueblo Community College and Colorado State University - Pueblo! CSU - Pueblo is now the fastest growing university in the state and PCC has campuses from Pueblo to Durango. Shows that even during the hardest times people were forward thinking in Colorado.

I love the optimism, but I don't see much evidence in Colorado lately of anything 'forward thinking', otherwise we'd have no issues with traffic, urban sprawl, pollution, water, and so forth.

Raping the landscape to plunder the natural gas supply so it can be sent to the Midwest? Not very 'forward thinking'. Widening roads and looking to fund new road projects instead of getting passenger rail going? Not very forward thinking. New water projects that will support more development and less agriculture? Not very forward thinking.

Our congress rewarding failure with bailouts? Not very forward thinking!

I don't think the average American is very well-equipped to deal with what's coming at us, but I could be wrong (must be the lil' optimist in me).

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

I love the optimism, but I don't see much evidence in Colorado lately of anything 'forward thinking', otherwise we'd have no issues with traffic, urban sprawl, pollution, water, and so forth.

Raping the landscape to plunder the natural gas supply so it can be sent to the Midwest? Not very 'forward thinking'. Widening roads and looking to fund new road projects instead of getting passenger rail going? Not very forward thinking. New water projects that will support more development and less agriculture? Not very forward thinking.

Our congress rewarding failure with bailouts? Not very forward thinking!

I don't think the average American is very well-equipped to deal with what's coming at us, but I could be wrong (must be the lil' optimist in me).

When you refer to Colorado not being forward thinking you are overlooking Pueblo, as most do in the state.

Water: We have enough for a city of 500,000 people and are in the process of buying more, using the money we get from leasing our water to parts of the Denver metro area.

Development: I just read the book Suburban Nation and it says that growth will occur to try to stop growth never works thus the best way is to manage it. That is what Pueblo is doing with developments like Pueblo Springs. Making sure the road system is adequate, mass transit links it to downtown, we have enough water, etc to make sure as Pueblo grows we do so in a reasonable way.

Just some optimistic thoughts from Colorado's second City!

[Shuffler]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

When you refer to Colorado not being forward thinking you are overlooking Pueblo, as most do in the state.

Water: We have enough for a city of 500,000 people and are in the process of buying more, using the money we get from leasing our water to parts of the Denver metro area.

Development: I just read the book Suburban Nation and it says that growth will occur to try to stop growth never works thus the best way is to manage it. That is what Pueblo is doing with developments like Pueblo Springs. Making sure the road system is adequate, mass transit links it to downtown, we have enough water, etc to make sure as Pueblo grows we do so in a reasonable way.

Just some optimistic thoughts from Colorado's second City!

You must be on the Chamber of Commerce down there, the way you're carrying on about PUEBLO. LOL!!!

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

You must be on the Chamber of Commerce down there, the way you're carrying on about PUEBLO. LOL!!!

LOL no. I do some volunteer work for them, and Pedco, when I can but I am just a average citizen of Pueblo who loves his town more then the average citizen lol

[Bullitt007]

Wow...talk about negative posts. Live happy folks! Life is good and there are blessings all around us on a daily basis. Sure life ain't all peaches and cream, but it is what you make of it. Happy New Year....Peace!

[njstinks0622]

Hey roywc, my gf and I (22 and 20 years old) are moving out to Evergreen/Conifer next year from NJ after the lease of our apartment is up. From my research so far, Evergreen/Conifer seems like a great fit since its close to denver for shopping, museums, job placement etc. Youre also a little over an hour away (depending on weather) from breckenridge which is an awesome town (nightlife, dining, shopping and overall scenery). Ive reseacrched a lot so far( colorado and Vermont) and I always come back to Evergreen. Evergreen itself has a cool town to walk around in and a few good bars and spots to eat.

READ MY POST IN RESPONSE TO THE PEOPLE THAT REPLIED TO YOUR THREAD AND ALL OTHERS THAT POST JUST LIKE IT.

[vegaspilgrim]

Nothing against Pueblo, obviously I have expressed interest in the place. I like Pueblo. But calling Pueblo Colorado's "second city" is just plain stupid. I wouldn't even call it Colorado's third, fourth, or even fifth city. I'm taking a wild guess and assuming that "second city" means second city to incorporate, as opposed to population or economic importance. Well whoop di do. I'm sure Pueblo has more claim to fame than that. What about the "Taste the Flavor of Pueblo" commercials I used to see on tv all the time? That sounds a lot cooler than "Colorado's second city."

[tfox]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

But calling Pueblo Colorado's "second city" is just plain stupid. I wouldn't even call it Colorado's third, fourth, or even fifth city. I'm taking a wild guess and assuming that "second city" means second city to incorporate, as opposed to population or economic importance.

Well, Chicago calls itself "the second city", even though it's smaller in population than Los Angeles. (I suppose the name is a holdover from an earlier time).

Looking up numbers (on wikipedia), it appears that Pueblo was for most of its history Colorado's second largest city.

Here are the historic numbers from the last century.
1900 28,157 14.7%
1910 41,747 48.3%
1920 43,050 3.1%
1930 50,096 16.4%
1940 52,162 4.1%
1950 63,685 22.1%
1960 91,181 43.2%
1970 97,453 6.9%
1980 101,686 4.3%
1990 98,640 −3%
2000 102,121 3.5%

Colorado Springs surpassed Pueblo in population only in the 1970 census, Aurora in the 1980 census, Fort Collins in the 2000 census. Arvada, Lakewood, Westminster, and Thornton also surpassed it, and Wikipedia didn't say when they reached that milestone, but probably about the same time Aurora did.

So, the "second-city" moniker was accurate until recent history. Even in the seventies it was still the third largest city in Colorado.

[Josseppie]

Pueblo is known as Colorado's "second City' due to economic and political reasons. Yes population wise are not the second largest city but that is not the only definition, and you example of Chicago proves that. Let me give you my reasons why I call it Coronado's "second city"

1. Political - Pueblo remains the second most important city in Colorado, in fact the Denver post said Pueblo is the most important democratic city outside of the Denver metro area, Pueblo is the only city that can and will stand up to Denver politically. Water is a big reason for that as well, in the west the saying goes don't follow the money but follow the water to see where the power lies. Like it or not, Pueblo has it (water) and the state wants it. Colorado Springs is finding out the hard way that they have to play by Pueblo's rules if they want access to their water, something the Denver area found out a long time ago. Why when Pueblo speak the state listens!

2. Economic - Due to Pueblo's location we are the economic and shopping hub for south east Colorado. Not because people like Pueblo more then the Springs, with highway 50 and I-25 its just easier to get to. Why pass up shopping areas just to go to another city? That is proven by the fact Pueblo County is a sales tax net gainer, that means that more money is spent here then the population would account for.

3. Colleges - Pueblo's colleges tend to be more regionally focused. PCC has campuses from Pueblo to Durango and CSU - P prides it self as to getting students from all over the state. In the Springs UCCS is mainly a Colorado Springs school Pikes Peak community college is only in the Pikes peak region. I am not sure about Colorado College but given how much it costs it is not a general school for most Colorado students and the Air Force Academy is a academy not a university, but is great that they have it and one of the reasons the Springs grew but not a school most Colorado students would consider unless they wanted to go into the air force.

4. I wanted to add something I thought about later, that is attitude. Pueblo tends to think more regionally then Colorado Springs does. This forum is a good example, the moderator who started the Colorado Springs room only wants cites in El Paso County there but when I started a thread for Pueblo I called it Pueblo and Southern Colorado and quickly other people from other cites joined in and that made it more of a regional thread. That goes on every level here, the Springs is mainly focused with the Pikes Peak region while Pueblo looks at all of south east Colorado as our region. You can see that when they have natural disasters, they usually run to Pueblo for help not the Springs. A good example was the Blizzard that killed all the cattle out east. Even though Pueblo has a smaller population the benefit concert for them was held at the Colorado State Fair Events Center

Another note, I predict its only a mater of time before Pueblo passes the Springs to be the states second largest city again by population but that's another discussion. I will say it has to do with the fact Pueblo is a business and manufacturing center and the springs is a military city and business hubs have no limit to how big they can be but military cities do have a limit.