any more updates on Fast Trax?

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by WolfBoy914

this is a DMU engine... Big difference from a freight engine.



I am surprised that they are not going with a diesel electric hybrid. they are super efficient and have much cleaner emissions than regular diesels.

One of the big reasons they went with DMU vs. EMU was the cost to put the overhead catenary electric lines. It would have required the rebuilding of many overpasses for clearances of these lines. Also, putting electric does not mean that the power appears from a magic font--it has to be generated, which does costs, both economically and environmentally. There are other reasons for diesel on these long distance lines vs.commuter rail in a denser urban environment, as here are many operational issues, differences of diesel vs. electric.

Also, if they had hybrid then they would have to built the electric lines anyways, with the associated costs. So why bother with a hybrid system, just go with the full EMU, Electrical Multiple Units if that is the choice.

Livecontent

[WolfBoy914]

With a diesel hybrid you do not need overhead lines... The diesel engine charges the batteries and the batteries run the motors at the wheels. Very efficient.

CSX uses a parallel hybrid on it's freight trains and it's quite effective.

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by WolfBoy914

With a diesel hybrid you do not need overhead lines... The diesel engine charges the batteries and the batteries run the motors at the wheels. Very efficient.

CSX uses a parallel hybrid on it's freight trains and it's quite effective.

Very Interesting, thank you for additional information. I have been to many RTD meetings and I have only heard this technology discussed with the point that it is not mature for commuter rail and has not been implemented, only freight lines. It may not exist in commuter rail, possibly for the weight of the batteries would require a more powerful diesel engine because commuter rails have to accelerate quicker and run faster.

So, I have heard the technology can be adapted without onboard batteries to make the units with less weight, as power as needed would come from the overhead lines.

Why would a diesel engine also have ability to use overhead electric. Well, some commuter heavy rail exist on the same tracks as commercial freight, vs. on adjacent tracks. So, with this hybrid technology in place without the weight of the current storage technology, diesels can at times make use of electric when the overhead electric are available. Overhead electric is much cheaper, reliable and requires less replacements of storage units than the current immature, evolving battery storage technology.

The records of discussion of rail technology does mention the potential of hybrids
It is in, among other places, stated clearly in the "Responsible Rail Admendment"
http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/u...arks_3__3_.pdf
RTD is saying that as the technology improves, then it will take advantage but it has to built with current economical technologies.

Since I am not an expert on rail technology, I can only say that RTD is contracting with a variety of diverse people who have the knowledge to implement the current technology available. I have met many of the engineers, who have extensive experience, and I do not think that they are pursuing a specific technology but only the best that can be built at this time, for this commuter rail system. It is one thing to read about a technology; it is another to implement it with cost, technological and environmental contrains.

Livecontent

[bicklehoff]

Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy

After all those millions we approved a few years back, this is all we get? (Speaking as a recent Coloradoan).

Here's my question? Who gets nicer catered lunches? RTD or AIG?

I guess life is good at the top (when you are milking all the slop)!

As for me I hope the voters approve more funding, I'm not sure why anyone would be against paying a couple of tenths of a penny on the dollar to get a metro. Maybe it's just me, but it kind of seems nice to have a commuter system linking the entire front range, especially with the advance forecasts that traffic will be unbearable in 10 years and gas will most likely be very expensive. Plus, pollution kind of stinks if you know what I mean, and I've have heard that it's not very good for you! Go figure. Sure the project is way over budget, what did you expect? Commodity prices sored, the dollar went down, and it's a government project, overruns are pretty much what has always happened in the past.

But, for me it's a government project I can support, because of the benefits it will bring us all who live in the metro area. The cost is spread out over all of us, and is very small in comparison to well, i don't know, buying a newspaper once a month? Seems like a small sacrifice to me. But, hey if you've already forgotten four dollar a gallon gasoline.........

[Shuffler]

I just registered a motorcycle and got hit with the RTD 'FastTax' fee in Longmont....$150 as part of a ~$600 total vehicle regisration cost...a tax for a light rail line that, despite all the hype and hope, will probably never make it to my town. So really, I've been ripped off and my money went into a hole.

So in the case of registering big ticket items, the RTD tax ain't no 'small fee', it's a freakin' ripoff!

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

I just registered a motorcycle and got hit with the RTD 'FastTax' fee in Longmont....$150 as part of a ~$600 total vehicle regisration cost...a tax for a light rail line that, despite all the hype and hope, will probably never make it to my town. So really, I've been ripped off and my money went into a hole.

So in the case of registering big ticket items, the RTD tax ain't no 'small fee', it's a freakin' ripoff!

The Fastracks tax is not only for commuter rail. It is for the expansion and continual maintenance of the system which includes commuter rail, bus rapid transit (BRT), more Park n' Rides and expansions, more buses and expansions of routes, more call n' rides and redevelopment of Union Station.

So, essentially at this point in time, some of this money has already been applied to all parts of this system:

Commuter Rail is now under construction for the West Line into Lakewood.

The BRT along I-36 has begun initial construction.

There have been new Park n' Rides, new routes and expansion of old routes

More Call n' Rides and expansions of existing Call n' Rides.

EIS and planning on all lines have been initiated.

Union Station has now selected a Architectural Firm and further planning and construction will commence.

So, I agree, your money did go into a hole; a "hole" for new constructions; and a much more larger "whole" of the bigger project, which has to been implemented to serve the individual parts.

You cannot have a heavy rail commuter train (it was never proposed as light rail) from Longmont to Denver without Union Station. You cannot have better public transit without the improvement of the whole system. You cannot have commuter rail without feeder buses, Call n' rides and Park n' Rides.

You cannot also put a new "hole" in the ground without the "whole" improvement of access roads, overpasses; track and road beds.

Livecontent

[Shuffler]

I understand the money goes toward far more than expanding commuter/light rail...it's a big 'system of systems'. But RTD has proven over and over again that they can't manage (our) money and now they're going to ask for even more and try to get a new tax on the ballot in '09!

BOHICA! (Bend Over, Here It Comes Again)

[bicklehoff]

not much to say except i agree with Livecontent. I guess this is why each of us has a vote. One observation I would throw out there though is that the posts I here against fastracks have been pretty much just saying they don't want to spend the money. There are arguments about wasting money, and officials living high on the hog, but if we really dig down into the details of those claims I would venture to say they are largely unsubstantiated (when taken in context and fully explored). Having said that though, hey, if you don't want to pay taxes for the service, vote against it. I know people with 5 kids who vote against school bonds, go figure.