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Old 04-06-2007, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Avondale, AZ
1,207 posts, read 4,137,134 times
Reputation: 913

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Jazzlover-
Those are great observations. We have only been here 3 years so I am still discovering what a great state CO is. I was overwhelmed by the rapid development in SoCal, so I do understand what you feel. I did take advantage of the increase in our property values, so complaining would be somewhat hypocritical.
You have known CO for a long time. About when do you feel Denver lost it's appeal to you? Is it just the Front Range area or do you think the whole state has been over run? My CO perspective is only from 3 years ago, which seems wonderful, but I didn't experience the pre-crazy development era CO.
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Old 04-07-2007, 10:58 AM
 
20,304 posts, read 37,790,850 times
Reputation: 18081
Default IMO, a bad attitude towards 'newcomers' is simply irrational thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
...snip...It's true, a lot of Coloradans dislike, often vehemently, newcomers. Those Coloradans can generally be divided into two groups: The old line natives who hate what rampant growth has done to the state they grew up in and loved. I would count myself in that group. The others are the people "who just moved in and want be the last people who just moved in."....snip....
True. But IMO its the same everywhere, and the same in every generation.

My late father was born in 1905 in Baltimore. I used to sit with him and my uncles and hear them talk about how such and such an area was all fields when they were young and how it became developed as far as they could see... and they'd go on about how so-and-so made a fortune by developing those old farms or orchards, etc.

Every generation has the same angst.

Resenting 'newcomers' is pointless. It was pointless 50 years ago when my father's generation was reminiscing about the good old days; pointless 25 years ago when my wife griped about growth in northern Virginia; pointless today; pointless tomorrow.

If old timers don't like newcomers, or newcomers don't like old timers, that's their mutual loss. The newcomers and the old timers are worth knowing....it works in both directions. Equally.

Everyone is welcome to live where they wish. I think the whole issue is way overblown. No one ever gives anyone static to their face, nor do I expect anyone to do so. People just vent here on the internet where it's safe to do so anonymously; thus we get lots of inner thoughts/angst being expressed. Unless someone is truly anti-social, all this angst is more about feeling out of control with the changes. Talk about something ironic... change is the only constant.

IMO, talk about newcomers is just people wishing for simpler times, like my railroad history pals who would all love to go back to the days of steam trains and no interstates and no jet travel, etc.

Still, a few people do have a lack of rationality in the matter...especially those who, IMO, are totally irrational by wanting to slam shut the door just AFTER they get in. What whack jobs they must be.

We're all newcomers at some point in time, some where. Whining is pointless and generally harmless. The country has been growing since the Mayflower landed. Its not gonna stop now. Not for any of us.

s/Mike from back east
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,961 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31371
Default Mike from back east

I'd give you a rep point for that but you don't need it. I remember my late father, born in 1914, carrying on like that about farmland being gobbled up near Pittsburgh, etc. It never changes. When we first came to Colorado, it was really bad. People had "native" bumper stickers on their cars, nasty letters to the editor were written about newcomers raping the landscape, etc. Then came the stock market crash of 1987 and that talk died down. There was acutally a year when more people left Colorado than came in! The 90s were hot and the old talk came back. Californians are "californicating" the state (their word, not mine), etc, etc. Then came the dotcom bust and Sept 11 and it's quieted down again. It's an endless cycle.
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Old 04-08-2007, 05:20 AM
 
476 posts, read 2,088,338 times
Reputation: 190
Colorado is going to have more and more people move in. We all have to get used to it or move to Barrow, Alaska, shutter, shutter.
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:09 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,374 posts, read 40,153,042 times
Reputation: 13176
I know exactly how Jazzlover feels (I graduated from East High in '72) and now I am living in north Florida, and listening to the same complaints about newcomers there.
It is true that it is an endless cycle, but that doesn't mean that that growth must be thoughtlessly unregulated. I really admire what city planners and developers have done at both Lowry and Stapleton in Denver. It would be nice for Colorado to do as much infill as possible. (Sorry, but I've never been much of a fan of Highlands Ranch.)
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
18 posts, read 114,301 times
Reputation: 19
Points from many sides have been well presented here, so I won't try to top those. I do want to share our experience here thus far, however. We've now lived here since mid-February (I know, not that long), but we've yet to experience any rudeness or intolerance of our being newcomers. In fact, we've found people very friendly, welcoming, and helpful. I've even joked about the fact that we're "laundered Texans", because we moved from Texas to Washington, DC in 2005 and then moved here to Denver. People have been very quick to welcome us and mention that the "dislike of Texans" in Colorado is really overblown.

Our experience has been very positive, so thanks to the CO natives and non-natives alike for making us feel so welcome.
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Old 04-08-2007, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,961 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by rburtoncpa View Post
People have been very quick to welcome us and mention that the "dislike of Texans" in Colorado is really overblown.
I have said in many posts that people are nicer one on one to Texans, easterners, Californians, etc than when speaking about them as a group.
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Old 04-08-2007, 02:29 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,095,377 times
Reputation: 9065
Default It's all that "smart growth" . . .

A couple of observations: Much of the Front Range lost its attractiveness to me by the mid-1970's, when the "cookie cutter" subdivisions and other barely planned development began sprawling from Castle Rock to Fort Collins. There are two things that developers do that I resent. First, they build on the flattest, most productive agricultural land because that's the easiest. Second, they tend to socialize many of the costs of their developments (roads, etc.) on the rest of the taxpayers. That has been allowed to be practiced in Colorado as a high art. There is no such thing as "smart growth" in Colorado. The developers and real estate interests absolutely "own" the political process (in both political parties) and bend it to their interests.

Another reason I despise the sprawl that has happened in Colorado has been its effect on the water resources of the state. The saying is that "water flows uphill in the direction of money" in Colorado. What that has meant in practical terms is that countless wetlands, irrigated farms, and sub-irrigated ranch land have been dried up so that Front Range folks can irrigate their non-native pesiticide-ridden Kentucky bluegrass lawns. South Park used to be a sub-irrigated ranching paradise, green from one end to the other all summer. No more. The Arkansas River valley east of Pueblo through Rocky Ford used to be one of the nation's premier producers of cantaloupes, watermelons, and the like. Pretty much gone. Farmers with water rights on the Poudre and South Platte are selling their rights to the Front Range cities as fast as they can. Middle Park ranching will be next (Denver already owns most of the water). The Front Range has tried to divert water from the San Luis Valley (one of the last big ag areas in the state) and from the Gunnison River drainage (more ranch country that could be dried up). When I grew up near Denver, we lived on well water from the Denver Basin acquifer. At that time, water experts believed that resource contained a 500 year+ supply. Thanks to all those houses in rural Douglas County (yup, those great big ones) being allowed to drill into that acquifer, many experts now believe that there is only a 20-25 year supply of water left in the Denver Basin acquifer. Now, the powers that be are trying to figure out yet another grandiose water project to solve that problem. Does no one remember that Colorado is a semi-arid to arid state?

So, how smart is the growth (spurred mostly by in-migration) that devours millions of acres of prime farm and ranch land, wastes massive water resources on non-productive purposes, and leaves in its wake a sprawling, traffic-ridden suburbia that is unsustainable in the long term? Maybe I'm just a dumb hick, but I don't think that's very smart at all. In the end, that's what a lot of old-timers rail against. Not the newcomers per se, but what has been done to the state to try to accomodate them.
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Old 04-08-2007, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Yellville,AR.
140 posts, read 422,347 times
Reputation: 107
Dear Former, We moved to a Rural almost outback area of No Central Arkansas to slow down, heard many stories. On top of that we are Jewish, just think of us when you get a hard time, hahaha. Seriously if your so called neighbor gives you the shrug when you mention where your from, they have done you a favor,in letting you know where you stand in that regard, maybe cold beginnings led to decent friendships . Do not care what anyone thinks about you , its what you and your Family , and Friendship has to be earned by all sides. We only had one nut neighbor that saw one of his precious plastic pipes that covers a rebar for Surveying - right in the middle of our pasture was sticking up and i simply moved it inline to the fence. He came all knarlied up on my Wife when i was'nt at Home, when He returned , I first warned Him never speak to my Wife in this manner again, then i reminded him how pleasant the rest of Arkansas has been to us, and he might want to start over so we could be civil to each other and be good neighbors. He continued to be snarly toothed , and rude so i invited him to leave , but he was always welcome with a good natured attitude that we deserved, and that we would invite him for a coffee or drink if he would. He Got more aggressive so i reminded him that i was his size and had no qualms at jumping off the porch, to remove him from our property and he promptly left in a huff got in his black older mustang and sped off our gravel road in a poof of dust- too funny. Later we found out he was the CLass CLown Nut of our area and don't take him serious. The point is the world is a great adventure and gift to all- and i mean all!! Best WIshes, Cheers ps we are moving to New MExico area for lower humidity,( Wife has Fibromialgia) will miss this Garden of Edan, Yellville ,Arkansas near Bull SHoals Lake, White , and Buffalo Rivers,
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Old 04-17-2007, 03:42 PM
 
29 posts, read 151,436 times
Reputation: 31
Jazzlover, your post made me smile.

When my family moved to Lakewood in 71 from DC, we were some of those easterners you spoke about.

I am sure I would not recognize anything in Lakewood now, having lived in CA since 81.

But here I am desperately looking to come back to CO, scary growth and all.

There are certain good old fashioned values that I recall (and they may be gone) that I miss and are not present in CA. Like courteous neighbors who don't look at you like you are mentally ill when you pass them on the street and say hello.

Although I must say even though lots of seniors make out just fine, looking down the road to my approaching elder years, I am a little concerned about harsh winters.

I remember some very, very charming older homes in Denver and that they maintain the roads all year round so I may look around there.

Excellent thread.
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