Grand Junction or Salida? (Boulder, Canon City: fit in, transplants, real estate)

[mhouse2001]

I'm torn between these two places right now. Grand Junction seems to offer what I'm looking for with respect to services and shopping as well as adjacent places to travel to. I'm currently retired but could work if needed. Salida on the other hand is in a beautiful location and I'm attracted to the wildness of the place (as in wilderness and isolation, proximity to nature).

I'm moving in an attempt to find a safe place to escape to as my current worldview is rather bleak. I have always had the urge to move to Colorado and have lived in many places out West (currently AZ). Now that I have the means, I think I should follow my gut instincts. I want to live in a place that has ample fresh water and the land can grow food, a place that could be self-sustaining if the need came to it. This description fits Grand Junction but I don't know if the land around Salida could be described as supporting food crops, but the fact that it's a smaller location might be beneficial for survival if the conditions in this country seriously deteriorate.

It is important to note that I love and value the Earth above all, am politically to the left, have soft-spoken leadership qualities, am highly intelligent, and am gay. OK, I hear laughing! What would someone of these persuasions want with 'rural' western Colorado? I can't really answer that except that my intuition is pointing in this direction. I've tried to ignore it, but it won't go away. I looked at Boulder and loved the town, but hated the attitude and was left with an unpleasant feeling about the whole Front Range (traffic, too big, not safe). I've driven on practically all of the state roads and I've seen most of Colorado. Would someone like me eventually fit into to artsy Salida or would I be better suited for a more urban life in 'big-city' Grand Junction?

THANKS for any assistance and feel free to suggest other Colorado locations that I might have overlooked (Delta, Montrose, Durango, Cortez, Trinidad, Alamosa). No, Telluride is too expensive unless I meet someone and can share a space!

[brucep]

I lived in Salida for about 5 years with my girlfriend--we left in 2000 after being economically eliminated. It's a GREAT place but was too expensive for us coupled with low wages. If you take money with you or have a cottage industry, or can live very cheaply you might love it. The weather is incredible, the altitude is perfect (7,000 ft.), it has a thriving arts scene and is in a beautiful setting. I don't think you would have any trouble fitting into Salida. I would pick Salida in a heartbeat next to Grand Junction...We're actually looking to move back to Colorado (possibly Canon City, which is still in a decent location but less expensive than Salida and still has the Arkansas River running through it. Anyway, I hope this helps.

[GrumpynAM]

I've lived in Grand Jct., for the most part of the past 34 years and have seen it change from "small town" to a lot bigger. Housing is escalating very rapidly due to the gas well industry in Garfield county. Houses that sold in the low 200K range are now being listed at 325K and up.

The peach orchards are being taken away for wineries, the open spaces are filling up. It's changed so much just in the past five years.

Have you considered Montrose? I'm not familiar with housing costs there, but it's so beautiful around there - you have a view of the San Juans, yet you're very close to Grand Jct., (60 miles).

[BillRadio]

What a difficult choice! And you have a good grasp of each town's attributes. But if raising any kind of crops is important, the G-JCT area is tops. Without question, Salida has a VERY short growing season. Of course that could be handled with an investment in a greenhouse structure. If so, the Salida community MAY be more supportive of your lifestyle.

Make no mistake about it, though. Salida, for all of its artistic left-leaning, is still a conservative small town. There's only one supermarket and you can't avoid anyone you don't agree with. G-JCT is large enough that you wouldn't have problems blending in.

While I really like Montrose, there you go getting a little higher in altitude, and lose the growing advantage you get in G-JCT. Other towns in that area to consider are Fruita, Palisade and Olathe. But I'm betting G-JCT will have more in common for you.

[jazzlover]

I would echo a lot of what has already been posted. I used to really like Grand Junction, but it is turning into a suburban polyglot and has a lot of big city problems and not a lot of big city amenities. The others are right, Salida doesn't have much of a growing season, and real estate there has become very overpriced. Too bad, it used to be one of my favorite towns.

As to "sustainability" in rural Colorado, that is going to be a major challenge in most places. Why? Because all of rural Colorado is absolutely dependent on the automobile and cheap gasoline. When cheap gas is gone (and it IS going), much of rural Colorado is going to hurt. Over the last half century or so, most of rural Colorado's railroad network has been abandoned. Much of the real estate development since has been in far-flung subdivisions that $5-$10/gallon gas will kill off. Grand Junction still has rail service and will benefit from oil and gas production;Salida's railroad is in mothballs and may be removed.

I would second that you ought to check out the Canon City/Florence area--it is reasonably close to the Front Range, has rail service (no passenger except the Royal Gorge tourist train), is lower in elevation than Salida, has one of the best growing seasons in the state, and has some nice country around it.

Now, about the gay thing. I'm going to step out a little on this one. Right up front, I'm not gay. I did live in one of the most conservative small towns in Colorado. I personally knew two gay gentlemen who lived there, one was a native, the other moved into the community. Both were successful businessmen, both were members of local service clubs, both volunteered in the community, and both were pretty much left to live their lives. Yeah, there was a little of the usual "whispering" about them--"Did you know that . . .", but probably not much more than the usual gossip in a small town about who was "sparking" on who. Neither gentleman hid the fact that he was gay, but neither flaunted it, either. As far as I know, both still live in the community (I have since relocated).

While most small towns in Colorado (save the resort areas) tend to be pretty conservative, most of their residents tend to take a "live-and-let-live" attitude. If you move in with a chip on your shoulder (and, sadly, a lot of transplants do), someone will probably knock it off; make an effort to be part of the community and you'll probably be fine.

[mhouse2001]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

I would second that you ought to check out the Canon City/Florence area--it is reasonably close to the Front Range, has rail service (no passenger except the Royal Gorge tourist train), is lower in elevation than Salida, has one of the best growing seasons in the state, and has some nice country around it.

Thanks all for your posts.

On my last trip to Colorado two weeks ago (I've been busy since), I discovered the area between Salida and Canon City and really liked it. I found some pretty nice properties and vacant land, but most were at or above 7,500' elevation. Ideally, I'm hoping to find something below 6,000'. Right now, it's the best area I've seen. Other threads have said this area is undesirable, but I think it has a lot to offer and is inexpensive compared to the rest of the state (except the Eastern plains, probably).

I drove to Montrose and intended to hit GJ, but I felt let down after seeing what the upper Arkansas River Valley had to offer in scenery and prices.

The cost of gasoline and the dependency of mountain-dwelling individuals on its cheapness is a concern. If I bought a property, I'd have to not only consider a better vehicle (my 16-year old Acura won't do) but also how far it is to the nearest gas station. I'm going to consider properties closer to Canon City on my next trip. Thanks again for the reality checks.

[angie.timm]

I am pretty sure you should check out Hotchkiss. Great groing season,lots of up and coming artist. The town is changing for the better and you can still buy a house for a reasonable price. Check it out before you decide on GJ. The North Fork valley is one of the most sustainable places I know. Ask me where to get unpasturized milk, cheap organic eggs, and gently grown beef and pork. PLus I have a connection for the best peaches you'll ever taste.

[mhouse2001]

Originally Posted by angie.timm

I am pretty sure you should check out Hotchkiss. Great growing season,lots of up and coming artist. The town is changing for the better and you can still buy a house for a reasonable price. Check it out before you decide on GJ. The North Fork valley is one of the most sustainable places I know. Ask me where to get unpasteurized milk, cheap organic eggs, and gently grown beef and pork. Plus I have a connection for the best peaches you'll ever taste.

Thank you. When I was up there 3 weeks ago I did look at a few houses in Hotchkiss and was hoping to spend more time searching in Paonia. I like that there are organic produce stands there. Unfortunately, I was on a tight schedule. If my searching near Canon City proves fruitless (ha ha, since you mention peaches), I'll definitely return to the Hotchkiss/Paonia area.

I still have my heart set on at least two acres of land with no nearby neighbors. I'll find it soon enough, I hope!

[Nadine]

Originally Posted by mhouse2001

Thank you. When I was up there 3 weeks ago I did look at a few houses in Hotchkiss and was hoping to spend more time searching in Paonia. I like that there are organic produce stands there. Unfortunately, I was on a tight schedule. If my searching near Canon City proves fruitless (ha ha, since you mention peaches), I'll definitely return to the Hotchkiss/Paonia area.

I still have my heart set on at least two acres of land with no nearby neighbors. I'll find it soon enough, I hope!

I have mentioned this before on these posts but will repeat in case you did not see. There are areas around the Arkansas River that fit the description you are looking for BUT--If you want to grow a garden, you will need irrigation water rights. Some of the land has been stripped of the water. Some ditches are better than others and some rights are more expensive than others but still cheaper than trying to use city water. The older the rights the better they are. Not all ditches are controlled the same, either. I would recommend when you are looking at a place, you check with old established neighbors They are the best with information as to the property you are looking at and ditches. It is possible that some will lead you astray because they want to hog. So talk to several.--not later arrivals too many think --if it runs by or a ditch is there with water it is mine to use. NO WAY! Land to grow anything in this area need irrigation and untreated water is the best for growing. If you have a well and plan to irrigate from it. Make sure you can and how much. Many wells are for domestic use only. Some places haul water to cisterns even tho they live near the river. Be very sure you check the water situation out even for household water. Living in an area where this NO city water can be wonderful but be sure what your oppositions are. Many wells went dry during the drought and some have been polluted .This is true of all of Colorado except there are some areas on the plains east(west too I suppose) that get enough rainfall to grow grain crops. Oh by the way we can grow some peaches here in Canon. Radiance(cling) is one variety that takes the cooler season. But this yr there will not be many that make it no matter the variety. It got warm early and trees started blooming. Then they got hit with norm temps. Much growth got fooled. Our asparagus for another but it is coming back. Just not as nice as the first. Not many fruit trees will bloom twice. Pears sometimes and some apples. Don't know of any peaches tho.

[jazzlover]

I posted this on another thread, but I thought that it might be helpful here. I echo Nadine. The best land in Colorado may not be worth much without decent water rights.

Most domestic well permits only allow minimal (1 acre of less) irrigation. Surface water rights do NOT run with the land in Colorado. It is perfectly possible to have a large stream running through the middle of your property and have NO right to use the water. Colorado is a "first-in-use, first-in-right" state when it comes to water. So, those who have "senior" water rights have a right to use water superior to those with "junior" water rights. In wet years, there may be enough water for all, but in dry years, the owners of more junior water rights may get only part or even none of the water they need to irrigate.

Water rights are serious business in Colorado. People fight over them. The old rancher's saying is, "You can mess with my wife, but don't mess with my water!" Water law is its own legal profession in Colorado. If you plan to buy property to farm or ranch, ABSOLUTELY know the quality and seniority of the water rights that you are acquiring. You may need to consult a water attorney to determine this. Live in Colorado very long and words like "junior," "senior," "decree," "prior appropriation," "point of diversion," "acre-feet," "c.f.s.," "augmentation plan," "tributary or non-tributary," "water court," and "water judge (or referee)" will find their way into your daily vocabulary. Oh yeah, "headgate," "irrigating boots," "irrigating shovel," "lateral," "marking," and "tailwater."

The Colorado State University (CSU) Agricultural Extension Service has a lot of good information on agriculture in Colorado.