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Old 11-23-2010, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
1,409 posts, read 2,252,473 times
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I can see wanting to move from an crowded place to one that is somewhat less crowded, but I am curious why somebody wanting to leave the congested metro areas of LA, SF, Sacramento, and San Diego wouldn't consider smaller cities in the state that are outside of those areas. California is so diverse that you have Colorado-like mountains, Nevada-like cold desert, PNW-like rain-forests, Arizona-like hot deserts all within the boundaries of the state. And it's full of smaller metro areas that may not offer the job market of Denver but certainly can match what the smaller Colorado cities have to offer. Of course it's probably best that those areas are skipped for consideration by the urban refuges so that they stay relatively uncrowded. (I might want to retire in one of them someday - but I'll try not to Coloradocate California).
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:34 AM
 
2,755 posts, read 11,511,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xeric View Post
I can see wanting to move from an crowded place to one that is somewhat less crowded, but I am curious why somebody wanting to leave the congested metro areas of LA, SF, Sacramento, and San Diego wouldn't consider smaller cities in the state that are outside of those areas. California is so diverse that you have Colorado-like mountains, Nevada-like cold desert, PNW-like rain-forests, Arizona-like hot deserts all within the boundaries of the state. And it's full of smaller metro areas that may not offer the job market of Denver but certainly can match what the smaller Colorado cities have to offer. Of course it's probably best that those areas are skipped for consideration by the urban refuges so that they stay relatively uncrowded. (I might want to retire in one of them someday - but I'll try not to Coloradocate California).
That's a good question. With the housing crash hitting the Central Valley and Inland Empire with a vengeance, it's debatable whether Colorado is currently any cheaper in terms of real estate as compared to California. Certainly one of the thousands of foreclosures there has to be very affordable right now.

It does make me wonder if emigration out of California will slow, now that Californians can stay closer to home and still get affordable housing. Plus, it's not as if our Colorado economy here is booming. There's always safety in familiarity.

The only thing is that as you said, there's few career opportunities for most in the inland parts of the state, though that doesn't affect retirees. There is also the heavy tax burden in California that might make nearby areas in Nevada particularly more attractive. Certainly those who want to live in the Tahoe area are going to be attracted to the Nevada side for that reason.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:30 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,091,437 times
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Originally Posted by tfox View Post
That's a good question. With the housing crash hitting the Central Valley and Inland Empire with a vengeance, it's debatable whether Colorado is currently any cheaper in terms of real estate as compared to California. Certainly one of the thousands of foreclosures there has to be very affordable right now.

It does make me wonder if emigration out of California will slow, now that Californians can stay closer to home and still get affordable housing. Plus, it's not as if our Colorado economy here is booming. There's always safety in familiarity.

The only thing is that as you said, there's few career opportunities for most in the inland parts of the state, though that doesn't affect retirees. There is also the heavy tax burden in California that might make nearby areas in Nevada particularly more attractive. Certainly those who want to live in the Tahoe area are going to be attracted to the Nevada side for that reason.
What wrecked California was out of control growth--and the growth in government that came with it. People can't seem to figure out that the two go together. So, too, comes with out of control growth the "nanny state" mentality and the problems that brings. The final straw for California, in my opinion, has been the out of control illegal immigration that has piled social problems and fiscal problems on the state that are just about beyond solution.

All of that said, people who flee California to places like Colorado, Arizona, etc. thinking that they are escaping those issues are going to be sadly disappointed. For one thing, they are bringing the same out of control growth that foments those kinds of problems to places like Colorado. Sadly, Colorado is making the very same policy mistakes that wrecked California fiscally, and--to a large extent--socially. Out of control growth? We have it. Complete embracement of the unsustainable auto-dependent lifestyle? We have that, too. Festering fiscal problems and an increasingly "nanny-state" government? Yes. Out of control illegal immigration? Yep. Those of us who are long-time Colorado residents and who have screamed for years, "Don't Californicate Colorado," have been overruled--it's happening. And it sucks.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:51 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,059 posts, read 15,464,992 times
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What did it for me was the childcare costs. In the BayArea it costs $2200 a month for a decent care center, full-time. $1600 a month when they are 2 years old. In Denver, I pay $800 for an awesome Academy, not just a childcare, and my daughter is not just another number in the field of many.

I love California but honestly I do not miss it, I thought I would too.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Colorado
86 posts, read 294,901 times
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Californicate? Doesn't that have something to do with selling sex?
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Colorado
86 posts, read 294,901 times
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Meant to type more in my last post, but I'm having quite a bit of internet lag today and am being cut short.
Anyway, there are quite a few I miss about California. Family, familiarity, less intense weather and the altitude was easier on me.
But my purpose for relocating to Colorado far outweighs going back. Not to leave anyone in wonder, but I'm not allowed to post what because for one, it could go against forum rules and considered advertising.

So yes, I have relocated from California and was not born and raised in Colorado. Call me what you wish. I am still an American and that will not change just because I live in Colorado now and not California.

And California got greedy. That's a big reason for the problems that it has gotten itself in to. It pushed a lot of the middle class and small businesses right out of the state.
Though, the other day I heard from a California relative that the house sales are back up and jobs are climbing.
That's nice, but I don't want to go back. You can line the streets with gold and color the skies blue and it still would not entice me.

As far as changes here in Colorado; I have an Aunt who's adopted grandfather was a Colorado native and farmer in the 1800's. From the stories I've heard thus far, Colorado needed some changes and has definitely gotten some it has not - which commonly happens in so many places when you have to take the good with the bad.
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,246,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
What wrecked California was out of control growth--and the growth in government that came with it. People can't seem to figure out that the two go together. So, too, comes with out of control growth the "nanny state" mentality and the problems that brings. The final straw for California, in my opinion, has been the out of control illegal immigration that has piled social problems and fiscal problems on the state that are just about beyond solution..
Actually it was old timers and their resistance to higher property taxes (prop. 13) that largely put the state in a fiscal hole. This shifted the burden to businesses and others, many of whom then chose to move elsewhere. You'd probably be in the same spot in a few years if you'd passed things like your recent Amendments 60 and 61.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:37 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,091,437 times
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Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Actually it was old timers and their resistance to higher property taxes (prop. 13) that largely put the state in a fiscal hole. This shifted the burden to businesses and others, many of whom then chose to move elsewhere. You'd probably be in the same spot in a few years if you'd passed things like your recent Amendments 60 and 61.
That is partially true. What put California in the fiscal hole was the same thing affecting much of the country, including Colorado: People want the government to do all kinds of things for them, but they want someone else to pay for it. Combine that with a political climate that encourages the kind of irresponsible growth that privatizes the profits for those who champion it (read: the land developers and their real estate/financial lackeys/pimps) and socializes the costs on the taxpayers, and one has a recipe for fiscal, economic, and social cancer just like that which afflicts California. That is EXACTLY what Colorado has done and it will have the same ugly results as has happened in California. That has not gotten here completely yet, but it is on the way.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
5,607 posts, read 20,181,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xeric View Post
I can see wanting to move from an crowded place to one that is somewhat less crowded, but I am curious why somebody wanting to leave the congested metro areas of LA, SF, Sacramento, and San Diego wouldn't consider smaller cities in the state that are outside of those areas. California is so diverse that you have Colorado-like mountains, Nevada-like cold desert, PNW-like rain-forests, Arizona-like hot deserts all within the boundaries of the state. And it's full of smaller metro areas that may not offer the job market of Denver but certainly can match what the smaller Colorado cities have to offer. Of course it's probably best that those areas are skipped for consideration by the urban refuges so that they stay relatively uncrowded. (I might want to retire in one of them someday - but I'll try not to Coloradocate California).
Outside of the larger metro areas you mentioned above, there's not really anywhere else in the state that's affordable AND practical to relocate from a jobs/career standpoint for most people. Most of the central valley cities are downright dreadful places to live with the worst air pollution in the country (much worse than LA), bad crime problems, the highest unemployment rates in the nation. Take away all that, and that leaves an incredible amount of scenic mountain and desert areas that are sparsely populated or even totally uninhabited. So in my view, just about any medium to large sized city in the intermountain west/ desert southwest is a better choice than California's B or C tier cities. And anyway, Vegas and Phoenix are basically outposts of southern California, and Reno is basically an outpost of northern California.
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:42 PM
 
25,800 posts, read 49,685,561 times
Reputation: 19248
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Actually it was old timers and their resistance to higher property taxes (prop. 13) that largely put the state in a fiscal hole. This shifted the burden to businesses and others, many of whom then chose to move elsewhere. You'd probably be in the same spot in a few years if you'd passed things like your recent Amendments 60 and 61.
Isn't it a stretch to blame CA fiscal problems in 2010 on Prop 13 which became law more than 30 years ago?

Prop 13 enjoyed a Grass Roots Ground Swell of popularity to make it the law of the land.

As to business... at least yearly there is a movement to strip business property of Prop 13 predictability and shift even more of a burden on business.

If Prop 13 type law is responsible for California Problems... how can you explain the 47 other States also in a fiscal hole?

Prop 13 limited the States ability to take local tax dollars out of the community without voter approval...
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