grand junction (Montrose, Fruita, Parachute: foreclosed, rental, condo)

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

I think jazz means that there's alot of crime now compared to the amount of crime when he lived there in the 1800s.

Cosmic,

I know you like to poke fun on occasion, but I'm getting a little tired of you discounting the views of people like me who have familiarity with Grand Junction that is longer than yours--which, for you, is a very few short years. I will grant that there are plenty of hell-holes in the US that have much bigger crime problems, etc. than Grand Junction does--maybe coastal Virginia is one of them--but there IS a significant crime problem in Grand Junction and it IS much worse than it was just a few years ago.

As for the comments of others that Grand Junction crime problems are "minimal"--that's just plain crap. Grand Junction has more than its share--for its size--of burglaries, robberies, assaults, sex crimes, meth issues, and the like. If anyone considers those "minimal" crime, then I think that is a sad commentary on the sorry state of American society and how we deluded ourselves into thinking that kind of activity is somehow "normal" or tolerable.

I may be accused of being "negative," but that happens quite often because I have a very low tolerance for mediocrity and "least common denominator"-type thinking. I don't think ANY amount of gang graffiti is tolerable, I think one burglary is too many, I don't believe that one person should have to be the victim of a violent crime. If we Americans would quit saying that s*** is OK, quit saying "well, that's just the way it is," quit playing these "go along to get along" games--and actually EXPECT things to be right, well, then a lot of things would be right.

As to the Grand Junction economy (and much of rural Colorado, in general), it is standing at the edge of an economic abyss. The natural resource industry has been powering much of the latter-day growth in the economy, and it is faltering--badly. The other piece that has fueled "growth" was the real estate bubble, and we haven't even STARTED to see that unravel in a lot of rural Colorado yet--but it will, because there is little left to prop it up. Unlike most of the "latter-day-transplants" on this forum who gush about how wonderful places like Grand Junction can be, I lived through the economic crash in this region in the 1980's. I survived it, but it was no easy time and, quite frankly, a lot of people weren't tough enough or stubborn enough to stay. I suspect it will be that way again--though this go-around has all of the earmarks of being much more severe than the crash of the 1980's. Back then, I watched legions of people who said they would never leave western Colorado because it was just so neat, beautiful--pick your adjective here--load up into a U-Haul truck what hadn't already been repossessed and point that truck somewhere besides western Colorado--and leave.

[80skeys]

Jazz,

It's all a matter of perspective. Having lived in a variety of cites and towns in the United States, and being somewhat familiar with certain other countries as well, Grand Junction falls quite a bit on the lower end of the scale for crime, compared to the "average" city or town, all other things being equal. This is the only criteria by which one may judge whether a place is high- or low-crime.

Sure ... "no crime" would be ideal, but there's no place where that is possible. What there is - a scale of some places with less crime, some with average, and some with high amounts.

Given my experience and my travels, my opinion of GJ is that it falls on the lower end of the scale.

If you've been living in Colorado for a long time and haven't gotten out and spent much time in other places, than certainly it's understandable that you would be particularly sensitive to changes in GJ that might have taken place over the years. However, if this is the case your perspective is limited, because you don't know the experiences other people are having in the rest of the country. You don't know where they're coming from.

My opinion is that the majority of inhabitants of this country would consider GJ to be on the lower end of the crime scale.

[80skeys]

you know, I can't see how anyone would feel unsafe walking in downtown Grand Junction.

As for graffitti, I can count on one hand the amount of distinct graffitti throughout most of greater GJ. This is saying a lot, because there's a lot of towns in this country where I wouldn't be able to say that.

As for police presence, interesting point: out of all the places I've been, GJ has a distinct LACK of visible police. I mean, I see about one police car a week. And I usually drive the most inhabited parts of town every day. I go downtown to check my mail at the post office. I go to the gym twice a week. I run errands on North ave. I go up and down Patterson and 12th every day.

Unfortunately the original poster doesn't say where he/she is coming from. But let me put it like this: if he/she were from someplace like Provo Utah or Staunton Virginia, then I would say they should expect to find more crime in GJ than what they're used to. Otherwise, they probably would find it to be less.

Originally Posted by jimmy914

i wouldn't say that there's a "crime problem." I mean, my criteria for a crime problem are:
- graffitti, trash, lots of problem people on the streets
- feeling unsafe walking down the street


You must just not live in the right neighborhood. I had a house in downtown Grand Junction until 2006, and we had everything you listed and much worse. I'm talking police visits to the block on a daily basis. I'm not kidding, one night I couldn't get home because SWAT guys with assault rifles had my whole area blocked off, looking for a crazed gunman on the loose.

[CosmicWizard]

jazzlover wrote:

I know you like to poke fun on occasion, but I'm getting a little tired of you discounting the views of people like me who have familiarity with Grand Junction that is longer than yours--which, for you, is a very few short years.

Everyones perspective has equal value. So what that your perspective is longer than mine. That does not in any way make it more valuable. Whenever I see that you are purposely confusing your perspective as THE truth, I will do my best to point out that is it just an opinion like eveyone else who is posting their opinion. When I see an inflated opinion, I will find a way to discount it, bringing it more in line with reality.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by 80skeys

Jazz,

It's all a matter of perspective. Having lived in a variety of cites and towns in the United States, and being somewhat familiar with certain other countries as well, Grand Junction falls quite a bit on the lower end of the scale for crime, compared to the "average" city or town, all other things being equal. This is the only criteria by which one may judge whether a place is high- or low-crime.

Sure ... "no crime" would be ideal, but there's no place where that is possible. What there is - a scale of some places with less crime, some with average, and some with high amounts.

Given my experience and my travels, my opinion of GJ is that it falls on the lower end of the scale.


If you've been living in Colorado for a long time and haven't gotten out and spent much time in other places, than certainly it's understandable that you would be particularly sensitive to changes in GJ that might have taken place over the years. However, if this is the case your perspective is limited, because you don't know the experiences other people are having in the rest of the country. You don't know where they're coming from.

My opinion is that the majority of inhabitants of this country would consider GJ to be on the lower end of the crime scale.

I've spent enough time in other places to recognize that Grand Junction is safer than many of them, but I don't consider it on "the low scale" for crime, and comparative per capita crime statistics bear this out.

I don't think the fact that Grand Junction--with middling crime statistics--is considered better than a bunch of crime-ridden ****holes is really something to crow about. Sort of like standing in 2 feet of crap instead of 4--better, I guess, but not something to be completely happy about.

[CosmicWizard]

jazzlover wrote:

Sort of like standing in 2 feet of crap instead of 4--better, I guess, but not something to be completely happy about.

Well if you crunch the numbers, standing in 2 feet of crap is only half as bad as standing in 4 feet of crap, whereas standing in 4 feet of crap as compared to standing in just 2 feet of crap is 100% worse!

[jimmy914]

If you look at the actual crime statistics, Grand Junction's are actually very high for a city of it's size. And sorry, unless things have just cleaned up that much in the 3 years since I moved away, you're just not seeing the graffiti etc. And I'm from a MAJOR metro area with serious gang and crime problems. When I lived in downtown GJ I could look out my window at almost any hour of the night and see transient/criminal types walking up and down the sidewalks. The neighbors' dogs constantly woke us up barking at creeps walking through the alleys in the middle of the night, up to no good. I'm not talking about walking down main street at 9pm. I'm talking about the back streets at 2 in the morning. If you're cool with that, then that's fine. I wouldn't want my wife and kids around that. Where I am now, it's never an issue.

[CosmicWizard]

jimmy914 wrote: Where I am now, it's never an issue.

My hat is off to you. Instead of endlessly whining and complaining on this forum, you saw something you didn't like and you took appropriate action to put you and your family in a place that is a better match with your preferences.

[80skeys]

We must be wearing different glasses. It's hard for me to relate to what you're saying. I don't see any of this stuff in downtown GJ. I must say that I wasn't living here 3 years ago, so maybe that's the difference. although but I find it hard to believe that GJ would have changed so drastically in such a short amount of time.

Originally Posted by jimmy914

If you look at the actual crime statistics, Grand Junction's are actually very high for a city of it's size. And sorry, unless things have just cleaned up that much in the 3 years since I moved away, you're just not seeing the graffiti etc. And I'm from a MAJOR metro area with serious gang and crime problems. When I lived in downtown GJ I could look out my window at almost any hour of the night and see transient/criminal types walking up and down the sidewalks. The neighbors' dogs constantly woke us up barking at creeps walking through the alleys in the middle of the night, up to no good. I'm not talking about walking down main street at 9pm. I'm talking about the back streets at 2 in the morning. If you're cool with that, then that's fine. I wouldn't want my wife and kids around that. Where I am now, it's never an issue.

[CosmicWizard]

hey 80...as a general rule of thumb, we tend to see whatever we are looking for and we we expect to see. If a person is looking for crap, that's what they tend to see. If a person is looking for things to be grateful for and happy about, that's what they see. Expectation plays a huge part in shaping our perspective.