Millions of dead trees in the Colorado Mountains (Denver, Breckenridge: ski resort, 2009)

[Ticky909]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Because of Colorado's steep, erosion prone slopes, the lack of market for large quantities of lodgepole timber, and the high cost of logging in a high-altitude short-season environment, large-scale logging is neither environmentally or economically feasible. Nature is going to have to run its course, and that will include "mega-fires" the likes of which we have never seen. Nature will correct a century-plus of resource mis-management and stupid development policies in a very violent manner--likely violent enough to shock the sensibilities of most Coloradans and certainly the many non-Coloradans who have some fantasy view about the bucolic nature of the mountain environment. That environment is unpredictable, violent, intolerant of human intervention, and often inhospitable to the human species. We're about to get a very un-subtle reminder about that.

PS--The "browning" of Colorado is not limited to lodgepole. I just read an article today reporting that Sudden Aspen Decline--the yet not totally explained die-off occurring in many of Colorado's splendid aspen forests--is still accelerating in rate of die-off and in overall extent.

When I studied the MPB, I realized nothing will be done on a small scale as far as it's concerned. Everything that has to do with the MPB includes lots of money, lots of time, lots of work, and lots of luck. This problem stretches into alberta and British columbia, and places people thought couldn't be infested are. Places they thought were too high or too isolated, too cold. I remember reading a gov report on the emergence of the beetle at various elevations around Fraser, Co. Maybe under normal conditions, the beetle doesn't go that high, but under epidemic, these things will swarm about anything.

Around a house, maybe you can staple a few of these pheremone packets around on the healthy trees, but besides that, on a large scale, it's going to be a fire that will probably make history. The wood needs to be logged essentially in the winter and early spring, and that wood needs to be buried under 6 inches of dirt, burned, or chipped. I don't consider the sprays viable because they need to be applied perfectly and yearly on healthy trees, and i'm not a fan of the amount that would need to be sprayed from here to mid alberta.

All of this leads back to the difference between a homogenous, 'tampered with' forest and a healthy one. Lodgepole is a pretty interesting tree in how they work, worth reading into.

I think nature just has to run it's course, tampering sort of started this situation ~100 years ago, and it's coming to a head now. Letting nature run its course, letting this historic fire burn, at least a diverse and healthy, fire resistant and natural, normal cyclical type forest can spring up, and we can be the better for it for staying out of it. Go up and chip all the wood you want, I'm all for some firewood for people who need it, but in the end this fire will, and should happen.

[jazzlover]

The big problem with the pine beetle is not the tree die-off--it is that tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money will be squandered in a futile effort to stop the inevitable because of political pressure from mis-informed citizens, lunkhead homeowners who built themselves into harm's way, and slimeball developers who developed property in a tinderbox. That political posturing, including some by the Colorado Governor earlier this year, has already begun.

I go back to a quote that I have posted here before, from a professional forester friend of mine, speaking about the ecology of a lodgepole pine forest, "There are only two kinds of lodgepole pine forests; the ones that are going to burn and the ones that are burning."

One thing for sure: when one of the inevitable mega-fires gets going, and a half-million or million acres of dead Colorado lodgepole forest is reduced to snags and ashes in a few days time, the Colorado tourism promotion mavens won't have to run their asinine "Let's Talk Colorado" ads anymore. Plenty of people will be talking about Colorado, but it won't be the talk the promoters will like to hear.

[MinuteMan]

Its happening elsewhere.....

South Central Alaska has problems with the Spruce Bark Beetle. "Cumulative beetle activity now totals over 3 million acres statewide since 1989 based on the annual aerial surveys."

What's bugging Alaska's forests? Spruce bark beetle facts and figures


The hardest hit area in North America is British Columbia according to this site... Climate-Related Core Issues - Ecosystems

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

I go back to a quote that I have posted here before, from a professional forester friend of mine, speaking about the ecology of a lodgepole pine forest, "There are only two kinds of lodgepole pine forests; the ones that are going to burn and the ones that are burning."

Sort of like the chaparral community in that regard. Fire made such environments and will continue to do so.

[sterlinggirl]

Our dead lodgepole forests are a great analogy to the FIRE economy...

All of those dead trees that help to block out the sunlight and rainfall to the forest floor are similar to the debt hanging over our heads. Green shoots growing out of the forest floor are great, but they'll never be truly safe until after the forest has burned.

[Shuffler]

Originally Posted by sterlinggirl

Our dead lodgepole forests are a great analogy to the FIRE economy...

All of those dead trees that help to block out the sunlight and rainfall to the forest floor are similar to the debt hanging over our heads. Green shoots growing out of the forest floor are great, but they'll never be truly safe until after the forest has burned.

great analogy! reps for that!

[Ticky909]

Lodgepole is an interesting species. It's sometimes described as being a 'fire maintained sub-climax community'. Lodgepole needs strong sunlight to thrive, meaning less competition growing around it blocking out its sunlight, thus, when there is a fire, or the forests are clearcut rapidly within a short time period, lodgepole tends to sprout up. Also, Once this forest of lodgepoles gets established, how is the next generation going to come up if they 'like' so much sun? Fire makes way through the dead ones and also helps some of the cones release the seeds as they have a resin that holds until a certain temperature. The main thing I'd worry about after the forest being cleared by fire is, surprise, a unimaginably large tract of open land where lodgepoles like to grow without competition and ample sunlight and room to thrive. If there's any human intervention I support, it's making sure that that doesn't happen. Viable species should be planted, ones that are 'in their element' but not another generation of unimpeded, homogenous, close clumped, lodgepole.

[delta07]

Originally Posted by Ticky909

If there's any human intervention I support, it's making sure that that doesn't happen. Viable species should be planted, ones that are 'in their element' but not another generation of unimpeded, homogenous, close clumped, lodgepole.

This doesn't make sense. Lodgepole grow where they do because they are "in their element." These forests have been here much longer than the humans that have lived or intervened. You cannot remove the species without some detrimental consequence to the ecosystem. They are adapted well, and planting some other species where lodgepole naturally grow, will not work. First off, most other species can't survive where lodgepole can. There is a reason why the stands grow the way they do. Second, what do you think would be accomplished by doing this? Having a pretty forest. Why would you want to change this? I don't get it!

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Ticky909

Lodgepole is an interesting species. It's sometimes described as being a 'fire maintained sub-climax community'. Lodgepole needs strong sunlight to thrive, meaning less competition growing around it blocking out its sunlight, thus, when there is a fire, or the forests are clearcut rapidly within a short time period, lodgepole tends to sprout up. Also, Once this forest of lodgepoles gets established, how is the next generation going to come up if they 'like' so much sun? Fire makes way through the dead ones and also helps some of the cones release the seeds as they have a resin that holds until a certain temperature. The main thing I'd worry about after the forest being cleared by fire is, surprise, a unimaginably large tract of open land where lodgepoles like to grow without competition and ample sunlight and room to thrive. If there's any human intervention I support, it's making sure that that doesn't happen. Viable species should be planted, ones that are 'in their element' but not another generation of unimpeded, homogenous, close clumped, lodgepole.

You are exactly right. Unfortunately, much of the mid-elevation Rockies from central Colorado northward all the way into Canada is in a climate zone where lodgepole can remain in a sub-climax fire-maintained condition almost indefinitely. In fact, many foresters call it a climax species in that environment. At the higher elevations of that mid-elevation zone, shade-tolerant species such as Engleman spruce will "invade" a lodgepole forest and choke out the lodgepole eventually--if there is not a fire.

From central Colorado southward--US Highway 50 makes sort of rough demarcation line-- lodgepole is less common in mid-elevation areas and aspen is more common. By the time one reaches the Colorado/New Mexico border, lodgepole are almost totally absent. Aspen, too, in many places is a sub-climax species which can be replaced by conifers over time. A key to the difference in lodgepole vs. aspen prevalence is precipitation patterns. Most of the northern and central Rockies have a pronounced June-maximum for summer preciptation, while the soutern Rockies have relatively dry early summer conditons, but a pronounced late summer (mid-July through late August) southwest monsoon summer precipitation pattern. The former seems to favor mid-altitude lodgepole, the latter favors mid-altitude aspen.

As noted in one of my earlier posts, aspen are facing their own problems--and some foresters fear more for the long-term survival of aspens in the Southern Rockies more than they do for lodgepole farther north.

[CosmicWizard]

In 1976 in Nelson BC Canada, I built a small cabin at the edge of a lodgepole forest where it met with the mature fir-tamarack-cedar-birch-aspen forest. Most of my framing elements came from standing dead lodgepole. A 12 ft length would usually have a taper of just one half inch ( 4 inches at the bottom and 3.5 inches at the top ), so it made great framing materials. At that time the lodgepole forest was very healthy.

I've read that British Columbia has been one of the hardest hit places for the decimation of a variety of coniferious tree types. Makes me wonder how my little ole cabin is faring thru all this, or if it even still exists. Has anyone been up around Nelson in recent years?