Millions of dead trees in the Colorado Mountains (Denver, Vail: real estate, foreclosure)

[Weekend Traveler]

I just returned from a one week trip to the Colorado Mountains and left depressed.

Since I was last there ten years ago I was shocked by two different things:

First, the millions of dead or dying trees in the mountains of Colorado It was especially shocking between Denver and Breckenridge. It seemed like the forests were basically destroyed with whole hillsides full of dead or dying trees. What can they do? It appears like they would be better off just clear-cutting the hillsides and start fresh.

The second thing that hit me about the mountains of Colorado was the mass development between Denver and Vail. I noticed huge areas are now overwhelmed by second homes, many in foreclosure. It seemed like the Vail valley is now 12 miles of one home and building after another. Ugly Sprawl.

Your thoughts?

[LibraGirl123]

Was in Colorado last week, and drove up to Breckinridge. SO many dead pine trees...it was really sad. The mountain pine beetle is the troublemaker:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/148297

[jazzlover]

An accurate perception. That's why many long-time Coloradans call the I-70 rural sprawl corridor the "I-70 Sacrifice Zone."

As to the trees, they are mostly lodgepole pine forests dying from mountain pine beetle infestation. There is little that can be done--professional foresters estimate that nearly all of Colorado's lodgepole forests will be dead within 5 years. The main vehicle to get rid of the dead trees will be wildfire--with a little bit of luck, a lot of those second homes stupidly built in the middle of a tinderbox will get "remediated" at that same time. There is an extensive thread on the mountain pine beetle infestation elsewhere on the Colorado forum.

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by Weekend Traveler

I just returned from a one week trip to the Colorado Mountains and left depressed.

Since I was last there ten years ago I was shocked by two different things:

First, the millions of dead or dying trees in the mountains of Colorado It was especially shocking between Denver and Breckenridge. It seemed like the forests were basically destroyed with whole hillsides full of dead or dying trees. What can they do? It appears like they would be better off just clear-cutting the hillsides and start fresh.

The second thing that hit me about the mountains of Colorado was the mass development between Denver and Vail. I noticed huge areas are now overwhelmed by second homes, many in foreclosure. It seemed like the Vail valley is now 12 miles of one home and building after another. Ugly Sprawl.

Your thoughts?

First: http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05528.html
Periodic pine beetle outbreaks are a normal part of natural cycle, helping to thin the forests out so that they will not overgrow into a giant tinder box.

The real problem is that second point, the high-country housing tracts. Development in forested areas keeps the NFS from being able to have controlled burns which would rid them of the infected trees and help bring the forest closer to a natural state.

That problem really has no solution in this present system of things since you can't really tell people not to build or buy anything up there, and even if you did, they would not listen. It's just an admittedly depressing fact of life. The good news is there's still some really beautiful, mostly unspoiled land out there, at least for now... It's just that you have to be willing to walk a ways from your car to see it.

[Shuffler]

If you want a real depressing sight, view it from 20-30k feet. Flying West out of Denver to Portland a couple weeks ago, I was pretty alarmed at how widespread it really is. Amazing that none of it has burned (yet), which presents all sorts of big problems that follow (soil erosion, snowpack melting too fast, etc.).

It's all because of fire supression in the name of real estate development, rather than letting nature run its course.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

It's all because of fire supression in the name of real estate development, rather than letting nature run its course.

How right you are. And making the US Forest Service spend its budget (your tax money) intended for forest management of PUBLIC land to put out fires on PRIVATE property instead.

I despise real estate developers because most of those slimeballs only know how privatize the profits from their nasty little schemes, and socialize all of the costs onto the taxpayers. We are all chumps for letting that happen. That's doubly true when they snuggle their slimy developments next to the public lands.

[CosmicWizard]

jazzlover wrote:

I despise real estate developers because most of those slimeballs only know how privatize the profits from their nasty little schemes, and socialize all of the costs onto the taxpayers. We are all chumps for letting that happen. That's doubly true when they snuggle their slimy developments next to the public lands.

I agree with the bold part, but it's the gutless politicians who enable them. We vote for politicians based on their phony campaign promises, only to be sold out to the highest bidder ( the developers ) once they get into office. What recourse do we have to get the bums out of office once we know that we've been had......again?

[delta07]

Originally Posted by treedonkey

First: Mountain Pine Beetle
Periodic pine beetle outbreaks are a normal part of natural cycle, helping to thin the forests out so that they will not overgrow into a giant tinder box.

The real problem is that second point, the high-country housing tracts. Development in forested areas keeps the NFS from being able to have controlled burns which would rid them of the infected trees and help bring the forest closer to a natural state.

That problem really has no solution in this present system of things since you can't really tell people not to build or buy anything up there, and even if you did, they would not listen. It's just an admittedly depressing fact of life. The good news is there's still some really beautiful, mostly unspoiled land out there, at least for now... It's just that you have to be willing to walk a ways from your car to see it.

You are correct, the mtn. pine beetle is a natural forest thinner. However, the current outbreak is at epidemic levels, rather than healthy, endemic levels. At this current state, there is really nothing to stop the pine beetle from wiping out all the trees. This is not healthy! Rather than thinning the stands and taking out the weak trees, they are killing off every tree in their path.

Another major problem with the housing development, especially in the weathy resort communities, is the fact that those homeowners don't want to see any forest management. Yes, prescribed fire is an excellent tool, but very difficult to do with all the urban interface. However, logging to thin out those unhealthy stands should have taken place 15 years ago. Vail fought against logging though, and now they are paying a hefty price. Instead of thinning out the stands, they are now wiping them out with lack of management.

[Shuffler]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

How right you are. And making the US Forest Service spend its budget (your tax money) intended for forest management of PUBLIC land to put out fires on PRIVATE property instead.

I despise real estate developers because most of those slimeballs only know how privatize the profits from their nasty little schemes, and socialize all of the costs onto the taxpayers. We are all chumps for letting that happen. That's doubly true when they snuggle their slimy developments next to the public lands.

USFS is so mismanaged it's not even funny...they need a major realignment of their priorities.

For the mountain folks, either they're prepared or they're not. If one can afford the land and the home, one can certainly afford to make it more fire-resistant along with a cistern, defensible space, and a contingency plan.

Fire agencies should 'qualify' their coverage area for who gets help and who doesn't when it comes to fires, so that the folks with the easiest places to save are the ones helped, while the others burn. In the fire service, it's all about safety & preservation of line personnel, first and foremost.

Anyway, not to get the thread off track. Not sure what can be done to save the dying forests from disaster, other than some combination of controlled burns, thinning/harvesting, and replanting, all of which face obstacles from public & private special interests.

[CosmicWizard]

So what else is new? In Colorado we have the priveleged class building their oversized mansions in the middle of a fire zone, and in my old stomping grounds of Virginia Beach we had the priveledged class building their oversized mansions in flood zones and hurricane prone areas. In both cases the priveleged class managed to privitize the luxury of ownership and socialize the cost of protecting their properties. The more things change, the more they stay the same!