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I'm not out to change anything, simply to enjoy life in the rural southwest, and listen to curmudgeons complain & try to keep others from joining.
But, but, but, do you not realize how much everything costs here? I pay nearly $3 a gallon for milk versus the $3 a gallon everyone else in the U.S. pays and that's not fair . I get a kick listening to the uninformed who apparently have never ventured far from their mountain shacks or they would know the issues they describe are not unique to Colorado. For instance, most of the produce I purchased in KY was shipped from California which, the last time I checked, was 1500 miles nearer to Colorado and helps explains why I pay less for produce in this "isolated mountain town" than in the truly cosmopolitan south. Further, a quick HomeDepot.com search showed that a nail/board/hammer/generator costs the same here as in Maine/Oregon/(insert any other state here). He can't grasp that because he has never lived anywhere but here.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 11-07-2011 at 09:04 AM..
In our search for a retirement location, my wife & I have spent a considerable amount of time in Durango. My wife has numerous relatives in the area (both retired & working in the local economy). IMHO, I have seen very little if any difference in the cost of living other than housing which is somewhat higher, yet not as high as the naysayers paint in comparison to other locales we have researched.
Groceries, gas, furniture, clothing, many, many items that we have compared show differences (if any) of only a few percent at most. Many items are less expensive. Anybody who moves to a rural area needs to understand that certain things may be higher priced due to the transportation needed. But the doom & gloom "sky is falling" position is absolutely uncalled for. One only needs to spend time in other parts of the country to put things in perspective.
Looking at it from the glass half full perspective, if plenty of telecommuters DO move to rural Colorado, the demand for lumber, goods and services WILL help to revive what left decades ago, so in that respect it WILL be the savior of rural areas and local tradesmen will again have more work than without the newbies.
It all depends on one's perspective.
Mine is that once passed, the Natural Gas Act will allow the trucking fleet to move to running on USA-owned natural gas, the plans are ready, the refueling stops will be implemented, the truck makers will produce the semi tractors and we can start telling OPEC to go eat crap and die.
Old joke that applies:
Three people, an Optimist, a Pessimist, and an Engineer, were standing around a table looking at a glass half full of water....
Optimist said: "Okay, a half glass works for me."
Pessimist said: "Rats, that's not nearly enough."
Engineer looks at the two dudes, looks at the glass, looks back up at the two dudes and says: "You guys, you got the wrong sized glass."
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Looking at it from the glass half full perspective, if plenty of telecommuters DO move to rural Colorado, the demand for lumber, goods and services WILL help to revive what left decades ago, so in that respect it WILL be the savior of rural areas and local tradesmen will again have more work than without the newbies.
Well, the fact is that most of the transplants relocating to rural Colorado live in a dream world where having any kind of basic "extractive" industry around is intolerable to them. The Colorado logging and lumbering industry is essentially near death--even though the destructive practices of clear-cutting ended decades ago. Nearly every timber sale proposed by the Forest Service is appealed--either by the the transplanted local granola-crunchers or by some out-of-state environmental group. Same with any kind of mining operation--whether the mine proposed is one that will be environmentally responsible or not. The same is now happening with the natural gas industry. One of the reason that the out-of-state transplants are resented by so many long-time rural Coloradans is that those newcomers tend to vehemently oppose the traditional industries that actually paid decent wages to their employees, were something beyond a low-wage seasonal employer, and actually stayed in business for more than a few years. To be sure, there have been agricultural, lumbering, and mining industry exploitation in years past that was very environmentally ugly, but those abuses have largely been ended with the regulatory environment in place over the past couple of decades. Meanwhile, the environmental damage (and there is plenty) caused by rural recreational development continues pretty much unchecked. Why?--because the transplants who get their panties in a bunch over any other kind of extractive economic activity in rural Colorado are the environmental parasites living in those rural developments. Apparently, as the old saying goes, they think that their s*** doesn't stink.
.... Nearly every timber sale proposed by the Forest Service is appealed--either by the the transplanted local granola-crunchers or by some out-of-state environmental group. Same with any kind of mining operation--....
Same in EVERY state, it's nothing new and there's nothing unique to COLO about this cycle of protest. People are well aware that developers of all sorts, be it resort development or mining development, are thieves who must be tightly controlled or they'll screw over the land and people with impunity. Their record of destruction is clear, from coast to coast.
You continue to post incredible doom and gloom that is so off the scale it's laughable. No one believes it, nor should they.
Durango is a beautiful place and as fine of a place to live as any other scenic locale.
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You continue to post incredible doom and gloom that is so off the scale it's laughable. No one believes it, nor should they.
Mike, you can sit in your retirement-pension encapsulated "happy bubble" over there on the Front Range all you want, but the reality in a whole lot of rural Colorado is much different and much darker than what you think. Admittedly, Durango may be one of the brighter spots in rural Colorado--mostly because of the often-transplant-hated natural gas industry that is booming in La Plata County (but mostly employing people from San Juan County, New Mexico), but the reality of much of the rest of rural Colorado is one of shrinking local employment, declining "Main Street" business sectors, a comatose real estate market, a dead construction industry, burgeoning public assistance rolls, and increasingly fiscally-strained public services (and the real fiscal impact of the economic implosion hasn't even hit those public agencies and their employment numbers just yet).
Now, for guys like me--who are "boots-on-the-ground" in the rural Colorado economy every day (and have been for decades)--it's not difficult at all to see where things are, and--economically--it is not good at all. Recently, I returned from another extensive trip through a good chunk of rural Colorado--including Durango, by the way. What I saw was more vacant storefronts, way more "Bank Owned" for sale signs on commercial property, real estate "For Sale" signs proliferating on residential properties, 2/3's empty motels during supposedly the "heavy" part of the hunting season, fuel prices stuck in the high $3/gal. range for gasoline and nearly $4/gal. for diesel fuel, and (pleasantly for driving) some of the least traffic on rural highways for this time of year that I've observed in probably 20+ years. What I heard from merchants about the summer 2011 tourist season was that it was not as bad as they expected as far as tourist numbers, but still pretty dismal--with those tourists who showed up being extremely conservative in their spending. Universally, what I heard was that the "happy" talk from the media about an improving Colorado economy and "mild" inflation was, bluntly, a "pile of crap" as far things in rural Colorado are concerned.
There are really two Colorado economies: the metro blobs along the I-25 corridor and the resort blobs along the I-70 corridor being one, and the rest of rural Colorado being the other. Anybody living in the former probably has little business commenting about the economy in the latter--because, quite frankly, they really don't know what conditions really are in rural Colorado.
And, considering that I've been studying and analyzing the rural Colorado economy for nearly two decades as part of my work, I really resent it when the "they-think-they-know-it-all-but-really-don't-know-much-of-anything" louts slander me as a know-nothing idiot on this forum when I know more about the economic, social, and geographic fabric of this state than all of them put together.
Now, for guys like me--who are "boots-on-the-ground" in the rural Colorado economy every day (and have been for decades)--it's not difficult at all to see where things are, and--economically--it is not good at all. Recently, I returned from another extensive trip through a good chunk of rural Colorado--including Durango, by the way. What I saw was more vacant storefronts, way more "Bank Owned" for sale signs on commercial property, real estate "For Sale" signs proliferating on residential properties, 2/3's empty motels during supposedly the "heavy" part of the hunting season, fuel prices stuck in the high $3/gal. range for gasoline and nearly $4/gal. for diesel fuel, and (pleasantly for driving) some of the least traffic on rural highways for this time of year that I've observed in probably 20+ years. What I heard from merchants about the summer 2011 tourist season was that it was not as bad as they expected as far as tourist numbers, but still pretty dismal--with those tourists who showed up being extremely conservative in their spending. Universally, what I heard was that the "happy" talk from the media about an improving Colorado economy and "mild" inflation was, bluntly, a "pile of crap" as far things in rural Colorado are concerned.
Jazzlover, I would invite you to travel through many small Pennsylvania, Upstate NY, Ohio, Michigan & Indiana small towns or for that matter small towns & rural areas throughout the country. You'll see the exact same sights. Rural Colorado is not unique in any of those respects. It is a symptom of the times we live in. These are times in which technology has made us the most efficient country in the world, so business is able to do more with less, resulting in fewer employees, hence fewer jobs, and massive unemployment. That represents a huge dilemma for the entire country, not just rural Colorado.
Regarding the natural gas industry, I bought my land from a drilling company. There is a pad no more than 300 yards from my land & I will live with it every day. I welcome it. I know that it's a huge part of the local economy and as long as the gas companies do well, the local economy will do well.
Jazzlover, I would invite you to travel through many small Pennsylvania, Upstate NY, Ohio, Michigan & Indiana small towns or for that matter small towns & rural areas throughout the country. You'll see the exact same sights. Rural Colorado is not unique in any of those respects. It is a symptom of the times we live in. These are times in which technology has made us the most efficient country in the world, so business is able to do more with less, resulting in fewer employees, hence fewer jobs, and massive unemployment. That represents a huge dilemma for the entire country, not just rural Colorado.
Regarding the natural gas industry, I bought my land from a drilling company. There is a pad no more than 300 yards from my land & I will live with it every day. I welcome it. I know that it's a huge part of the local economy and as long as the gas companies do well, the local economy will do well.
I have never said that rural Colorado was unique in its economic dilemmas--I also see plenty of other places suffering economic pain right now. Unfortunately, a lot of people get a jaded view of Colorado on this forum, thinking it is someplace with beautiful scenery and a wonderfully healthy economy, to boot. It's not. Quite honestly, Colorado had "its moment in the sun" when fuel was cheap; plentiful federal government money was available to finance otherwise impractical water projects, highway projects and other public infrastructure projects; the state had not yet eviscerated a good chunk of its small, but vibrant heavy industrial capacity; the state itself was actually on sound fiscal footing; and, most notably, before the state's population had exploded beyond Colorado's ability to supply its residents with plentiful decent-paying jobs, adequate infrastructure, and taxpayer-affordable public services. Those days are DONE, probably for good in this state. Now, Colorado must face what a whole lot of places in the United States must face for the foreseeable future: How to manage a materially declining standard of living, increasing natural resource scarcity with higher costs, deteriorating public services, increasing chronic unemployment and underemployment; a higher transfer of wealth from individuals to government either by an increased tax burden or by inflationary money debasement, and increasing social dissatisfaction and unrest as the reality that permanent economic contraction and decline of living standards over the long-term is what the future holds. It's not a pretty picture and my prediction is that economically unbalanced and geographically isolated places like Durango will likely suffer such ill-effects disproportionately as the new economic realities assert themselves.
Jazzlover, I was looking at an economic forecast for LaPlata County produced by the Colorado Department of Local Affairs in November 2010 from this page Colorado Department of Local Affairs - Economic Forecasts and it seems to forecast the county adding over 10,000 jobs between 2010 and 2020 and pretty healthy total income growth. Maybe this is too formula driven and / or too optimistic but that is what I see. This forecast of 2.5-2.8% annual job growth is about halfway between the growth rate seen in the first half of last decade and the growth rate seen at the very end of the last decade. Do you disagree with this forecast? If so, what source and / or projections do you consider more accurate? Do you or your sources think the job forecast should be 25% - 50% less rosy or more?
Further it shows very strong growth into the future for tourism jobs and jobs related to "wealth & investment income" and "retiree spending". Do you agree of disagree with these being major drivers of future job & income growth for La Plata County?
Do you see health services and other professional services (including financial services) as making even larger job & economic impacts for Durango in the future as the more balanced center of a fairly large, economically unbalanced and geographically isolated region that needs a center and the services it can provide?
Durango is a metro of over 50,000 now (and expected to get to 60,000 not long after 2015). It is also just a bit over 50 miles from the Farmington metro of 125,000. At that size itself and with that degree of proximity to a larger market it isn't exactly the same reality and challenge as faced by other western Colorado communities, say Craig or Alamosa or places even smaller. It is perhaps most comparable to Garfield County and probably has (and will have) more in common with Mesa County than the small counties. 50,000 population is often a threshold for getting new retail operations from national companies or even getting considered for most primary job relocations and start-ups. Being comparatively quite isolated (way off the interstate) is still obviously a major deterrent or fundamental obstacle though to a lot of economic possibilities.
I agree that the next decade is going to be more challenging in lots of ways than the last few for Durango, Colorado and the country as a whole (and probably beyond the next one). How bad the outcome will be is hard to say precisely. I don’t think it is all locked in and decided already.
... an economic forecast for LaPlata County produced by the Colorado Department of Local Affairs in November 2010 from this page Colorado Department of Local Affairs - Economic Forecasts and it seems to forecast the county adding over 10,000 jobs between 2010 and 2020 and pretty healthy total income growth.... it shows very strong growth into the future for tourism jobs and jobs related to "wealth & investment income" and "retiree spending". ....
Retiree spending is going to be big in places with great natural beauty, that means COLO, Utah, NM, WY, ID, OR, WA and other spots. The baby boom generation (1946-1964) is just beginning to retire and find their havens away from big expensive cities. I'm a 48'er and somewhat represent the bow wave of boomer retirement and relocation. Those born around 1960 are only 51 and still in the workforce. This wave of retirees is going to last for quite a while; and their economic forecast may well be on the low side.
IMO it will bring a whole new form of prosperity to Durango and many other such locales. Gone may be the extractive industries that raped the land in generations past, though that still happens in places like God-forsaken southern WV, where they remove entire mountain tops to get at the coal seams, bulldozing them into the valley and leaving a barren moonscape. Prior generations in WV denuded the hillside of old growth Spruce of the sort sought out for tall ship masts and by the Wright Bros for that funny looking contraption of theirs. Colorado will escape that fate and thus become a magnet for people who cherish the beauty and wonder of it all. I'd rather look at homes in Durango, et al, than look at more damned superfund sites created by the criminals who operate the extractive industries.
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. I get a kick listening to the uninformed who apparently have never ventured far from their mountain shacks or they would know the issues they describe are not unique to Colorado. For instance, most of the produce I purchased in KY was shipped from California which, the last time I checked, was 1500 miles nearer to Colorado and helps explains why I pay less for produce in this "isolated mountain town" than in the truly cosmopolitan south. Further, a quick HomeDepot.com search showed that a nail/board/hammer/generator costs the same here as in Maine/Oregon/(insert any other state here). He can't grasp that because he has never lived anywhere but here.
