Why the "split" between "old" and "new" Coloradans . . . (Denver: environment)

[Bagz]

Originally Posted by sterlinggirl

Worker bees are the beneficiaries? You must mean the ones who live in Battlement Mesa and commute two hours each way to Aspen to make just enough money to pay for their rent every month. You see the same thing in LA with people spending four hours a day in their car to afford overpriced real estate, and after 9 hours at work, four hours in the car, spending time getting kids ready for school, and helping with a little homework at night, they don't live....they just work.

The few people that make those long commutes do it because the money is good and they do not do it long term. They typically also do not have children. It is also not the average situation, it is the extreme and often only the extremes get the ink. The fact that they are doing the jobs proves that they are benefiting - especially in this climate of low unemployment.

$20 an hour for 8 hours (4 hours travel) is exactly the same as $8 an hour for 12 hours (4 hours overtime). Economic forces at work and the reason they get $20. The real difference is that we are talking entry level jobs in both cases and future potential is much greater for the resort workers.

From the US Census US Census Press Releases
" In a ranking of large cities (with populations of 250,000 or more), New York (38.3 minutes); Chicago (33.2 minutes); Newark, N.J. (31.5 minutes); Riverside, Calif. (31.2 minutes); Philadelphia (29.4 minutes); and Los Angeles (29.0 minutes) had among the nation’s highest average commute times. Among the 10 cities with the highest average commuting times, New York and Baltimore lay claim to having the highest percentage of people with “extreme” commutes; 5.6 percent of their commuters spent 90 or more minutes getting to work. People with extreme commutes were also heavily concentrated in Newark, N.J. (5.2 percent); Riverside, Calif. (5.0 percent); Los Angeles (3.0 percent); Philadelphia (2.9 percent); and Chicago (2.5 percent). Nationally, just 2.0 percent of workers faced extreme commutes to their jobs. (See extreme commutes rankings [PDF].)"

I would venture to say that more than 3% work over 12 hours a day, so people not spending time with kids has more to do with working long hours than commute times.

[sterlinggirl]

Originally Posted by Bagz

$20 an hour for 8 hours (4 hours travel) is exactly the same as $8 an hour for 12 hours (4 hours overtime). Economic forces at work and the reason they get $20. The real difference is that we are talking entry level jobs in both cases and future potential is much greater for the resort workers.

You forgot the $60 a day that it costs to commute.....

[Chris19]

With gas going up and the time spent commuting, it dillutes the benefit of the higher wages to a certain extent. Do not forget driving the longer weather during adverse weather conditions such as snow and ice.

[sterlinggirl]

And the terrorists on 82

[Chris19]

Are they the ones that drive the expensive vehicles such as Hummers and BMWs?

[sterlinggirl]

They're the ones who drive 90 through the passing zones, but have to go 20 around every corner for an average speed of 30 MPH.....

Many have Beemers or Hummers and have more horses under the hood than the typical commuter in a Corolla, so your only chance to pass them is to hang back before a corner and get a run on them. If you do it just right you can fly past them before they get up to speed. If you don't do it just right, you're another statistic for 'Killer 82'

[TaraMoon]

Originally Posted by Bagz

LOL I can see how you would think that. Some of my Libertarian friends are exactly that. However, some are converted Democrats that believe that the Democratic Party is becoming an advocacy group for Socialism. I have heard both Democrats and Republicans say that Libertarians will never become a dominant party because they are too individualistic. I think you can see why after reading your post criticizing liberal and conservative towns and claiming to be individualistic I would recommend Leadville. It's difficult to know exactly what you are looking for from a few paragraphs.

I didn't criticize liberal towns. I was pointing out that libertarians are not liberals.

[CTC]

Originally Posted by TaraMoon

I find it hard to believe that maids make $20 an hour anywhere. Are you sure about that?

late reponse here, and I apologize, but in the Vail area they do-my neighbor in Gypsum makes 25$ an hour cleaning trophy homes in Vail/BC(yes she is legal), which helps them to afford a very nice home here in Gypsum in conjunction with her husbands job.

I love the old Colorado, and have made a good living in recent years helping to clean up environmental damages from the old days (ie California Gulch) and very much respect the mining and agricuture which formulated the small towns west of the Divide.

I do not indenitify with the very well to do up in Vail parading around in their furs etc-but many of my friends have moved here for the same reasons-to have a better way of life, have access to recreation, and to escape the urban rat race. And I must ask, what is wrong with that?

We make sacrifices to live here (we meaning the average person), most of us new comers respect the land as much or more than the long time locals (most new comers do not litter the BLM with beer cans, old washing machines),etc

Go to the Costco in Gypsum and you will see an incredibly wide range of demographics-ranchers,ski bums, wealthy types, construction workers etc
The vibe is very positive and people seem to get along quite well.

Don't forget, what you see from I-70 is a micro slice of CO-88% of land in Eagle County is still publicly owned and cannot be developed.

The old days are gone (of course) but the Vail Valley is still a great place to be

[CTC]

Originally Posted by Katiana

My daughter has been told she has a slight "southern" accent. She is a native and her father and I are from Nebraska and Pennsylvania, so she didn't get it from us. She is also 23 yrs old, so I guess fits the definition of "Coloradans today".

Rawlings: I agree completely. I have lived a few other places so have a basis for comparison. In fact, I sometimes find it laughable to hear some people talk about how sophisticated Colorado is. I remember when Krispy Kreme donuts came to the state; people went gaga! (And that was just a few years ago!) That said, it's been a nice place for us to live these past 27 years.

Ha ha and I remember when I was living in the Bay Area circa 2001-the Krispy Kreme opening was a major event in Daly City-going gaga over KC cannot be seen as an indicator of cultural sophistication IMO

[Katiana]

If you read my post closely you will see that I find this "sophistication" laughable.