Why the "split" between "old" and "new" Coloradans . . . (Denver: bankrupt, to live)

[elemental]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

If that were really true--and I don't consider that it is, though it is heading that way--that is a sad commentary on the economy, sociology, and the environment that could lie ahead for the rest of Colorado. Many of we natives don't call the I-70 Corridor the "I-70 Sacrifice Zone" for nothing. We just hope that the cancer that is spreading there doesn't metastasize to the rest of the state, though that increasingly seems to be what is happening. The whole corridor from the bottom of Vail Pass to Glenwood Springs was a whole lot nicer when it was ranches and sheep pastures--I wish to hell it could be that again. Paradise lost.

What is it with this "we natives"? Unless you are an American Indian, you are not a native. You're nothing more than the offspring of a non-native- just like the rest of us. Get off your horse and contribute something beyond attempts to draw a dividing line in the sand. What made you better than the rest of us? Divine Right? I think not.

We're all entitled to opinions, though you will see clearly that if you look down your nose at others, you are one that you despise. My ancestors discovered most of the world and one of my ancestors is John Philip Sousa, but does that make me any better than you? Of course not. This native crap has to stop unless you are a Sioux or Blackfoot. Then I agree, this was your land and we are all non-native and you have the right to be bitter.

What is your nationality JazzLover?

[elemental]

Originally Posted by Ticky909

A brawl as a legitimate and final way to settle an arguement, with handshakes and brew being exchanged afterwards.

I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree. As long as no one dies, it's a healthy part of life.

[elemental]

Originally Posted by Homesick in AK.

I remember playing in the 'caves' up in Red Rocks. Looking out over the seats. Driving to downtown Denver with my sister in the '56 Chevy when she was 14 & I was 12. We took turns going around the Capitol. Dad found out later..... GROUNDED! Surprised we weren't spanked. Dad taught all of us to drive by age 12 in the Brentwood shopping strip back parking lot. Horseback riding in Morrison. 25 cent movies, Gothic theater. Stockcar races & Lakeside amusement park where they would drop us off for hours with no fear of something bad happening to us. Bear Valley was the 'edge' of town. Dirt roads after that. One piece Gymsuits at school & gym class EVERY day. 3-4 cereal choices on the grocery shelf. Really walking to school for 10 blocks & not complaining. Picnics in the park where Cinderella City stands now. Crusin Colfax, (under aged). It Was a good time to be there.

Thank you for sharing the experience. It must have been amazing to grow up there. I long for the simple solutions and uncomplicated life that our parents knew well. Today, if a kid takes the car and has an accident, everyone gets sued, it's on CNN.com in 10 minutes and your life is ruined. In those days, the parents talked, the kids got a whoopin and lost their allowance forever to pay for the damage. If you take care of your own, they will do the same. We've left it up to others today and our fates have shifted to the hands of others.

[elemental]

A word to all: if the areas you knew well have changed or are changing, you have two choices-

accept the change as evolutionary and go with it;
or, you can effect change yourself by physically getting to the town meetings, making intelligent arguments against the negative aspects of change- specificially targeting how they do not meet the town's code and rousing the others who share your sentiment into doing the same.

Wishing it would change is like trying to hold a rainbow.

What did every one of our parents teach us? Action speaks louder than words. Live it!

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by elemental

What is it with this "we natives"? Unless you are an American Indian, you are not a native. You're nothing more than the offspring of a non-native- just like the rest of us. Get off your horse and contribute something beyond attempts to draw a dividing line in the sand. What made you better than the rest of us? Divine Right? I think not.

We're all entitled to opinions, though you will see clearly that if you look down your nose at others, you are one that you despise. My ancestors discovered most of the world and one of my ancestors is John Philip Sousa, but does that make me any better than you? Of course not. This native crap has to stop unless you are a Sioux or Blackfoot. Then I agree, this was your land and we are all non-native and you have the right to be bitter.

What is your nationality JazzLover?

Know what?--I've contributed more to this state than most people on this forum ever will. I've been involved in community, politics, business, charities, volunteer work, etc., etc. longer than many people on this board have been alive, and very likely longer than many have lived in this state. I was born in this state--and, more importantly, I've cared deeply about its cultural and natural heritage all my life--unlike a lot of ne'er-do-wells that park their ***es here and never do anything but see how much they can suck out of the place.

By the way, the Sioux and Blackfoot aren't very "native" to Colorado, either. What is now Colorado was mostly the domain of the Utes and Comanche--if one bothers to know some Colorado history. Of course, most "newbies" and even a lot of long-time residents can't be bothered about knowing anything of the history or heritage of the place in which they live.

As far as knowing this place, I posted a couple of years ago this list of the communities and places in this state that I have frequented over my long residency here--and, yes, I have more than a passing knowledge about just about all of them. I doubt too many people can top this list of their visited places in Colorado:

Agate, Aguilar, Akron, Alamosa, Allenspark, Allison, Alma, Almont, Anton, Antonito, Arapahoe, Arboles, Arlington, Arriba, Arvada, Aspen, Atwood, Ault, Aurora, Austin, Avon, Avondale, Bailey, Basalt, Battlement Mesa, Bayfield, Beaver Creek, Bedrock, Bellvue, Bennett, Berthoud, Bethune, Beulah, Black Forest, Black Hawk, Blanca, Boncarbo, Bond, Boone, Boulder, Boyero, Breckenridge, Briggsdale, Brighton, Broomfield, Brush, Buena Vista, Buffalo Creek, Burlington, Burns, Byers, Cahone, Calhan, Campo, Canon City, Capulin, Carbondale, Carr, Cascade, Castle Rock, Cedaredge, Centennial, Center, Central City, Chama, Cheraw, Cherry Hills, Cheyenne Wells, Chimney Rock, Chipita Park, Chromo, Cimarron, Cimarron Hills, Clark, Clifton, Climax, Coal Creek, Coaldale, Collbran, Colorado City, Colorado Springs, Commerce City, Como, Conejos, Conifer, Cope, Copper Mountain, Cortez, Cory, Cotopaxi, Cowdrey, Craig, Crawford, Creede, Crested Butte, Crestone, Cripple Creek, Crook, Crowley, Cuchara, Dacono, De Beque, Deer Trail, Del Norte, Delta, Denver, Dillon, Dinosaur, Divide, Dolores, Dotsero, Dove Creek, Drake, Dumont, Dunton, Dupont, Durango, Eads, Eagle, Eastlake, Eaton, Eckert, Eckley, Edgewater, Edwards, Egnar, El Jebel, Elbert, Eldorado Springs, Elizabeth, Empire, Englewood, Erie, Estes Park, Evans, Evergreen, Fairplay, Firestone, Flagler, Fleming, Florence, Florissant, Forest Lakes, Fort Collins, Fort Garland, Fort Lupton, Fort Lyon, Fort Morgan, Fountain, Fowler, Foxton, Franktown, Fraser, Frederick, Frisco, Fruita, Fruitvale, Galeton, Gardner, Gateway, Genoa, Georgetown, Gilcrest, Gill, Glade Park, Glen Haven, Glendale, Glenwood Springs, Golden, Granada, Granby, Grand Junction, Grand Lake, Granite, Grant, Greeley, Green Mountain Falls, Greenwood Village, Grover, Guffey, Gulnare, Gunnison, Gypsum, Hamilton, Hartsel, Hasty, Haswell, Haxtun, Hayden, Henderson, Hereford, Hesperus, Highlands Ranch, Hillrose, Hillside, Hoehne, Holly, Holyoke, Homelake, Hooper, Hot Sulphur Springs, Hotchkiss, Howard, Hudson, Hugo, Hygiene, Idaho Springs, Idalia, Idledale, Ignacio, Iliff, Indian Hills, Jamestown, Jaroso, Jefferson, Joes, Johnson Village, Johnstown, Juanita, Julesburg, Karval, Keenesburg, Ken-Caryl Ranch, Kersey, Keystone, Kim, Kiowa, Kirk, Kit Carson, Kittredge, Kremmling, La Boca, La Jara, La Junta, La Salle, La Veta, Lafayette, Lake City, Lake George, Lakewood, Lamar, Laporte, Larkspur, Las Animas, Lazear, Leadville, Lewis, Limon, Lindon, Littleton, Livermore, Loma, Lone Tree, Longmont, Louisville, Louviers, Loveland, Lucerne, Lyons, Mack, Maher, Manassa, Mancos, Manitou Springs, Manzanola, Marble, Marvel, Masonville, Matheson, Mc Clave, Mc Coy, Mead, Meeker, Meredith, Merino, Mesa, Milliken, Minturn, Model, Moffat, Molina, Monarch, Monte Vista, Montrose, Monument, Morrison, Mosca, Mountain Village, Nathrop, Naturita, Nederland, New Castle, New Raymer, Niwot, Northglenn, Norwood, Nucla, Nunn, Oak Creek, Ohio City, Olathe, Olney Springs, Ophir, Orchard, Orchard City, Ordway, Otis, Ouray, Ovid, Oxford, Padroni, Pagosa Junction (Gato), Pagosa Springs, Palisade, Palmer Lake, Paoli, Paonia, Parachute, Paradox, Parker, Parlin, Parshall, Peetz, Penrose, Peyton, Phippsburg, Pierce, Pikes Peak, Pine, Pinecliffe, Pitkin, Placerville, Platteville, Pleasant View, Poncha Springs, Powderhorn, Pritchett, Pueblo, Pueblo West, Purgatory, Ramah, Rand, Rangely, Read, Red Cliff, Red Feather Lakes, Red Wing, Redstone, Redvale, Rico, Ridgway, Rifle, Rockvale, Rocky Ford, Roggen, Rollinsville, Romeo, Rush, Rye, Saguache, Salida, San Luis, San Pablo, Sanford, Sargents, Sedalia, Sedgwick, Segundo, Seibert, Severance, Shawnee, Sheridan, Sheridan Lake, Silt, Silver Plume, Silverthorne, Silverton, Simla, Slater, Slick Rock, Snowmass, Snowmass Village, Snyder, Somerset, South Fork, Springfield, Starkville, Steamboat Springs, Sterling, Stoneham, Stonewall, Stonington, Strasburg, Stratton, Sugar City, Superior, Swink, Tabernash, Telluride, Tercio, Thornton, Timnath, Toponas, Towaoc, Trinidad, Twin Lakes, Two Buttes, Vail, Victor, Villa Grove, Virginia Dale, Vona, Walden, Walsenburg, Walsh, Ward, Watkins, Weldona, Wellington, Westcliffe, Westminster, Weston, Wetmore, Wheat Ridge, Whitewater, Widefield, Wiggins, Wild Horse, Wiley, Windsor, Winter Park, Wolcott, Woodland Park, Woody Creek, Wray, Yampa, Yellow Jacket, Yoder, Yuma.

[Brill]

I doubt too many people can top this list of their visited places in Colorado:

How does that make you better than everyone else?

[Sockeye]

Originally Posted by elemental

What is it with this "we natives"? Unless you are an American Indian, you are not a native. You're nothing more than the offspring of a non-native- just like the rest of us. Get off your horse and contribute something beyond attempts to draw a dividing line in the sand. What made you better than the rest of us? Divine Right? I think not.

We're all entitled to opinions, though you will see clearly that if you look down your nose at others, you are one that you despise. My ancestors discovered most of the world and one of my ancestors is John Philip Sousa, but does that make me any better than you? Of course not. This native crap has to stop unless you are a Sioux or Blackfoot. Then I agree, this was your land and we are all non-native and you have the right to be bitter.

What is your nationality JazzLover?

I see...no in-state tuition rates for ANYBODY!
Native American Indians trace their roots to the Siberian regions many centuries ago. They arrived in North America by way of the Bering Straight. So by your rigorous definition of native, there are no such people. Webster defines it otherwise-"1. Being the place of origin (birth) of a person or thing."

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Brill

How does that make you better than everyone else?

It isn't a question of being "better," it's a question of knowing and understanding this place better.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Sockeye

I see...no in-state tuition rates for ANYBODY!
Native American Indians trace their roots to the Siberian regions many centuries ago. They arrived in North America by way of the Aleutian Straight. So by your rigorous definition of native, there are no such people. Webster defines it otherwise-"1. Being the place of origin (birth) of a person or thing."

Thank you, Sockeye. You and Webster say it quite well.

[Homesick in AK.]

Jazzlover, I WISH I'd have been to all the places in the state you have! Hey, I get another chance! Gettin' to move back. Can't hardly wait to be around friends & family again and to visit old haunt's & see new places. I HAVE been able to live in the communities I chose for over a year each, which is great 'cause you get to experience the place, weather, people etc. better....I think I should have had a profession while doing all this so I could have lived in more places! Drive my hubby nuts with this attitude of enjoying 'new places'.