Why the "split" between "old" and "new" Coloradans . . . (new home, living)

[elemental]

As fate would have it, immediately upon falling in love with this place called Colorado for the last few hundred years, I began reading up on the history of places like Denver, Leadville, the Springs, etc. Over the last four years, I have visited a laundry list of places, but do not know their respective histories. The fact is, I enjoy the act of visiting, learning and sharing- not espousing my greatness or demeaning others.

Since we are pulling definitions out, I checked up on Native and found the following rather poignant as it describes Jazzlover's diatribes in the final sentence.

Conversely, the original inhabitants of America - who during the process of being conquered and dispossessed were usually not called "natives" but "Indians" or "Red Indians" - have adopted at their own initiative the appellation "Native Americans", and bear it with pride. And in the context of Nativism, in some periods a potent political force, "natives" are defined as a (predominantly white) group deserving of a special privileged position in comparison to immigrants.

Judge not, lest yee be judged...

[elemental]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Thank you, Sockeye. You and Webster say it quite well.

Using this logic, my child - born in Colorado - is as much a native as you. However, I am still looked down on as one who emigrated to Colorado? Do you see how silly standing on the Native "soap-box" looks at the moment for your ancestors once emigrated to Colorado as well. The fact is, they were likely looked down upon with the same callous righteousness of those whose towns they "invaded".

I do however respect your defense of the state on-the-whole. Step off the native soap-box and metastasis/cancer overuse(my uncle just passed from brain cancer) and your intended effect would be magnified several-fold. Your birthplace has no bearing on whether you are correct; the arguments have merit of their own when based on fact and experience.

Where did your ancestors emigrate from?

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by elemental

Using this logic, my child - born in Colorado - is as much a native as you. However, I am still looked down on as one who emigrated to Colorado? Do you see how silly standing on the Native "soap-box" looks at the moment for your ancestors once emigrated to Colorado as well. The fact is, they were likely looked down upon with the same callous righteousness of those whose towns they "invaded".

I do however respect your defense of the state on-the-whole. Step off the native soap-box and metastasis/cancer overuse(my uncle just passed from brain cancer) and your intended effect would be magnified several-fold. Your birthplace has no bearing on whether you are correct; the arguments have merit of their own when based on fact and experience.

Where did your ancestors emigrate from?

I, too, have posted on the irony of having two "native" children, while I, who have lived here longer than they, am not, and am considered by some an outsider. It's ridiculous. I've spent more of my life here than anywhere else.

[CosmicWizard]

We ALL live on the same planet, so we are one and all natives of the planet earth. Why limit ourselves to man made lines on a map defining a mythical place called Colorado? Even the birds have enough sense to ignore deceptions like that. It's all made up, and the only thing keeping up the delusion is our common willingness to PRETEND that it's real.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I, too, have posted on the irony of having two "native" children, while I, who have lived here longer than they, am not, and am considered by some an outsider. It's ridiculous. I've spent more of my life here than anywhere else.

Ditto--I graduated from high school in Denver, but technically am not a native.
(And neither of my native kids have remained in Colorado--though this might some day change.)
As I've posted before, the same native-non-native stuff (with different nuances) goes on here in my new state of Florida.
We're a more mobile society now, but there has probably always been an ambivalence about newcomers and what they bring with them.
The thing is, birds do recognize and defend territory.
Obviously, people do, too.
However, we do indeed all share the planet. The tricky part is to keep it livable.

[Sockeye]

Originally Posted by elemental

As fate would have it, immediately upon falling in love with this place called Colorado for the last few hundred years, I began reading up on the history of places like Denver, Leadville, the Springs, etc. Over the last four years, I have visited a laundry list of places, but do not know their respective histories. The fact is, I enjoy the act of visiting, learning and sharing- not espousing my greatness or demeaning others.

Since we are pulling definitions out, I checked up on Native and found the following rather poignant as it describes Jazzlover's diatribes in the final sentence.

Conversely, the original inhabitants of America - who during the process of being conquered and dispossessed were usually not called "natives" but "Indians" or "Red Indians" - have adopted at their own initiative the appellation "Native Americans", and bear it with pride. And in the context of Nativism, in some periods a potent political force, "natives" are defined as a (predominantly white) group deserving of a special privileged position in comparison to immigrants.

Judge not, lest yee be judged...

Sounds a lot like the Moderator cut: language coming from revisionist textbook writers like Howard Zinn that, sadly, sit on our kid's school desks these days.
I'll stick with Webster, and also Manifest Destiny.

[zenkonami]

Might I suggest (in the dangerous parlance of geopolitical ideology) that rather than this being a question of natives vs. non-natives, this is more of a debate of "Coloradans" (more of a pervasive attitude toward the state, it's culture, lifestyle, history, geography, etc...) and "Non-Coloradans" (perhaps those who have little vested interest in the place except that it's "pretty", "hip", "convenient" or what have you, regardless of the standing culture, lifestyle, history, geography, laws, etc...)

Or perhaps we could simply say Coloradans are "good" and outsiders are "bad." Nietzsche, however, might have had something to say about this whole debate.

Personally, I understand the sense of community and protectionism that binds a group of people together, but also have to agree that in the grand scheme we have an entire world to look after.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

Might I suggest (in the dangerous parlance of geopolitical ideology) that rather than this being a question of natives vs. non-natives, this is more of a debate of "Coloradans" (more of a pervasive attitude toward the state, it's culture, lifestyle, history, geography, etc...) and "Non-Coloradans" (perhaps those who have little vested interest in the place except that it's "pretty", "hip", "convenient" or what have you, regardless of the standing culture, lifestyle, history, geography, laws, etc...)

An excellent thought.

[Sockeye]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

Might I suggest (in the dangerous parlance of geopolitical ideology) that rather than this being a question of natives vs. non-natives, this is more of a debate of "Coloradans" (more of a pervasive attitude toward the state, it's culture, lifestyle, history, geography, etc...) and "Non-Coloradans" (perhaps those who have little vested interest in the place except that it's "pretty", "hip", "convenient" or what have you, regardless of the standing culture, lifestyle, history, geography, laws, etc...)

Or perhaps we could simply say Coloradans are "good" and outsiders are "bad." Nietzsche, however, might have had something to say about this whole debate.

Personally, I understand the sense of community and protectionism that binds a group of people together, but also have to agree that in the grand scheme we have an entire world to look after.

That last statement is quite profound, and its also bankrupting our democratic republic.

[Scintilla]

Hmmm. This thread was quite the eye opener.

Are most of the "native" Coloradoans as xenophobic as the ones who posted here?

It doesn't matter how long you have lived in CO or whether or not you were born there. You are no more or less entitled to live there than anyone else. Even yuppies. Gasp!