Why the "split" between "old" and "new" Coloradans . . . (Denver: environment)

[canyontiger2]

Originally Posted by Rawlings

My grandparents see A LOT of change. My parents see much change--but obviously less than my grandparents. And I, surely, see less change than either of them.

Here's the thing: in our fast-paced and quickly changing world you have to expect change. The country--and Colorado--are becoming urbanized, more convenient, much more modern. In Colorado we've got more sports teams, nicer homes and buildings, bigger roads, bigger and better cars, etc.

I often catch myself getting resentful or angry about these changes. I'm a traditional, suburban, kind of guy--into church, family, and the rest of it. I worry that we're becoming a lot like Southern California and the state I love is becoming a distant memory.

But it's not. It will not. Sometime you have to take a step back and realize that for all the change, so much stays the same. There's a stubborn resiliancy to most folks here. People still have that rugged, traditional, family-centered view of life despite the changes.

Colorado has always been the kind of place you come to to find a little paradise, to succeed, to find a place where you can thrive (a lot like America). That's still largely the same. I'll conceed that a lot of Californians come here and try to convert the state instead of blending in. That's so obnoxious. But there's too many people that care about Colorado of old--and certainly new--to let that happen.

I'm a traditional, suburban, kind of guy--into church, family, and the rest of it. I worry that we're becoming a lot like Southern California and the state I love is becoming a distant memory. That says a great deal about you. I too am traditional, a Christian, really into my family etc but not suburban. I believe maybe we that are rural see more changes. It is really sad. Hollywood Liberalism is invading even out here. Those people don't believe in anything except themselves. Certainly not in God and Country.

[Rawlings]

Originally Posted by canyontiger2

I'm a traditional, suburban, kind of guy--into church, family, and the rest of it. I worry that we're becoming a lot like Southern California and the state I love is becoming a distant memory. That says a great deal about you. I too am traditional, a Christian, really into my family etc but not suburban. I believe maybe we that are rural see more changes. It is really sad. Hollywood Liberalism is invading even out here. Those people don't believe in anything except themselves. Certainly not in God and Country.

I'll agree with that! Hollywood liberalism is, at least, TRYING to come out even here. But I think there are too many values and decency-minded people in Colorado--and most of the country--to let that happen. I'm sure that in rural areas you probably do feel the negative aspects of modernization a little more. The suburbs are, well, the suburbs and they may change the least.

What I can tell you is that, compared to many other states, Colorado is still one of the more church-going, traditional, decent places you'll find. Studies show that despite the 'Californication' of the 90s, Colorado remains a great state.

I'll also add that many of the Californians who did come here, were actually conservative, Orange County families who followed James Dobson to the Springs. It's simply a lie that California corrupted our state.

I'm not ready to pull the panic lever yet. I can't speak for rural Colorado, but I can confidently say that most of the state remains a great place for families and Christians--one of the best around.

It's too expensive, too many illegal immigrants, and too many flakey people. But in spite of all of that--as traditional Christians, you and I can be proud of Colorado. Then again, that could simply be the notoriously sunny outlook of a 20-something.

[Katiana]

Sounds like the "good ole days" including a lot of drinking. I do not think DUI is something to celebrate.

Interestingly, I am not a native, but I have lived here longer than my kids, who are natives. How many years does a non-native have to live here before they are accepted and acceptable?

[jazzlover]

pittnurse,

You are right. Attitudes used to be different about alcohol, just as they were about smoking and a whole lot of other things. It's a wonder some people managed to live to ripe old ages. My post was meant (in hopefully somewhat of a humorous vein) so show how much things have changed--admittedly, some things for the better. (For example, some Colorado water used to REALLY be bad--I don't miss that.) My point is that all of those things--good or bad--were part of the heritage of Coloradans like me, who grew up in an era much different, though not that long ago, from today. As I have thought about this, I realize that the Colorado "baby-boomers" of my age came of age right at the time when Colorado essentially made the transition from what it had been for probably 75 years before to what it has become today. I feel privileged to have seen Colorado before that change became so pervasive. Much heritage has been lost.

Many people have tried to "sanitize" the state's heritage or have tried to restate its history to something it was not. The place was one of ranchers, loggers, miners, railroaders, farmers, and roughnecks who worked hard and played hard. Many of the bankers, business people and professionals in the towns and cities traced their heritage back only a generation to those people. The stuff people read about in the western history books involved people only a generation or two removed from then current Coloradans. A friend's grandfather was directly involved in the cattle and sheep wars. A businessperson in town was the grandson of one of Butch Cassidy's gang members. Another resident (for a time living only a block from me) was a direct decendent of Baby Doe Tabor. The grandmother of a landlord I had was a survivor of the Ludlow Massacre. So, when I write of Colorado's "frontier" history and heritage, for me it's not an abstraction or some stuffed and mounted museum piece.

Yeah, even pretty recently, people had different attitudes about a lot of things. Colorado was a hard-drinking, hard living place, populated by people tough enough to match the mountains. And--those mountains!, so breathtakingly beautiful that you thought you were in heaven, and sometimes so treachorous that they could send you there in a heartbeat. Mountains, scarred, maybe--but not tamed, domesticated, homogenized, and suburbanized. I pity the fact that younger people will never get to know the Colorado that I knew. For all of its good and bad, it was one hell of a great place to grow up around. So much of it wasn't an amusement park-like sideshow--it still was the real thing!

[vegaspilgrim]

I'm in my early twenties, born and raised in the suburbs of Denver (Aurora/Centennial), so the "New Colorado" is the only Colorado I have ever experienced. Though I do know what you're talking about with the "old Colorado." One side of my family has lived in CO for three generations, almost a hundred years now. I've heard a lot stories about how different Colorado was "back then" from my grandmother who grew up in Colorado Springs in the 1920s and 30's, when it was just a small town. She even has a different accent than me-- more of a Texas-style twang, whereas most Coloradans today have completely neutral, standard American accents. So I don't dispute your point, jazzlover, that things have changed.

But so what? There is still a place where you can live that horse-riding, cattle-punching, hard-drinking, wild western life-- it's called Wyoming (and if I'm not mistaken you're living there now). Wyoming will always be your quintessential old-west kind of place. Great for tourism, but not the kind of place a young person can go to and have real opportunities to have a career. Sure, right now they might be having a temporary mineral-extraction boom-- that doesn't mean anything. The future of this country is with the young generation, people like me, who are still in college or are early in their careers. Denver happens to be a good place for college educated, urban-minded young people to live and find jobs, because of the opportunities that your maligned "New Colorado" has created. This is a global economy-- you either compete for the best talent, the best resources, or you relegate yourself to a quaint backwater community.

Maybe what Colorado means to me is different than what it means to you, but I am very proud to have grown up there, and I plan on moving back after I graduate from college next year. For me, memories of my hometown include going to concerts at the Pepsi center, Elitches, DIA (I remember when it was built, I was ten years old, they had an air show at the site), seeing the Rockies at Coors Field, rooting for the Broncos every Sunday with my family, going skiing at Loveland and Mary Jane, having a picnic on Mt Evans, taking family road trips throughout Colorado and the southwest, cruisin' around Downtown Denver after I first got my license, going K-12 in the Cherry Creek School district, hanging out in Boulder at the Pearl Street Mall... the list goes on and on. Another thing about the new Colorado that blows away the old Colorado is food. As my dad tells me, back in the 1970's going out to eat meant either Village Inn, Furr's or the White Spot (I have no clue what that is). Today there is more diversity, and better food than ever before. Even the chain restaurants are better than ever before. A whole slew of nationally successful fast-casual chain restaurants all started in Colorado.

You can have Wyoming all for yourself, jazzlover! I look forward to coming back home soon!

[MattDen]

Im a 4th generation Colorado Springs native, my relatives moved from North Dakota to just east of Colorado Springs around 1910.

I will be 25 in July, so I am not really old enough to remember the old Colorado. But long-term Colorado Springs residents always talk about how the much growth has happened. I really though lately have been progessively more interested in the history of my home state.

I do think alot of long-term Colorado Springs residents are very upset with all the growth that has occured. Even though an example of a city that has not grown much is Pueblo. When I have brought that up, Colorado Springs natives tend to be very defensive about the issue of growth. Alot of people who have been in Colorado Springs for most of their lives I think would prefer it be the resorty town of 50,000 people it once was rather then the metro area of 600,000 people it know is.

In my opinion alot of old Coloradoans tend to be very laid-back, very friendly and materialism doesnt mean as much to them as alot of the new Coloradoans who come out here who have moved from high-priced areas of California where they can move from a small house in California to a great, big house in Douglas County.

I just think alot of new-comers try to speed up the pace of what Colorado
used to be. I can see this by the driving in Colorado Springs. Up north where you have a vast majority of the people not from Colorado the driving is fast, hurried and alot of the transplants even have a bit of a snooty personality.

While where the Old Coloradoans are on the Westside and up in the neighborhoods like up on North Wahsatch people tend to drive much, much slower and are much more friendly and every thing is far more slow-paced.

[canyontiger2]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

Sounds like the "good ole days" including a lot of drinking. I do not think DUI is something to celebrate.

Interestingly, I am not a native, but I have lived here longer than my kids, who are natives. How many years does a non-native have to live here before they are accepted and acceptable?

You misunderstand. Colorado people are friendly people. But the atitude of the people coming from--where ever is the reason whether or not they are excepted. Nothing to do with where they come from. But if they have poor attitudes about us then we will naturally have poor attitudes about them. There are good people everywhere. If you think you have not been excepted or not considered acceptable, then maybe you should check your atitude toward Colorado.

[Katiana]

A nice day to you, too, canyontiger! Always blame the victim. (I don't really consider myself a 'victim', but I see a lot of that on these forums.)

[Rawlings]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

She even has a different accent than me-- more of a Texas-style twang, whereas most Coloradans today have completely neutral, standard American accents.

The future of this country is with the young generation, people like me, who are still in college or are early in their careers. Denver happens to be a good place for college educated, urban-minded young people to live and find jobs, because of the opportunities that your maligned "New Colorado" has created. This is a global economy-- you either compete for the best talent, the best resources, or you relegate yourself to a quaint backwater community.

First, a lot of Coloradans actually do have twangy-accents. At least, the natives do.

Second, I have never heard Denver described as 'urban minded' before. It is full of talented, education, young people--I'll give you that--but it is largely suburbanized. In fact, because of that I've heard plenty of people slam the town for being a suburban backwater. I think it comes to this: if you're one of those new urbanists whose into a culturally dynamic, high-flying, 'inclusive,' urban places--then Denver's just not for you. Denver's a place where you can get a good job, find a good church and safe neighborhood, and raise your family. I don't think it's as hip as you think it is--maybe you've been in Vegas for too long. Just think of San Francisco, New York, Boston, DC, Chicago, or LA. Then think of Denver.

Point made. And, for the record, I'm VERY glad Denver isn't the fancy-pants, glitzy, craphole that most of those towns are. I'll take our backwater suburbs over those places any ol' day.

[Katiana]

First, a lot of Coloradans actually do have twangy-accents. At least, the natives do.

My daughter has been told she has a slight "southern" accent. She is a native and her father and I are from Nebraska and Pennsylvania, so she didn't get it from us. She is also 23 yrs old, so I guess fits the definition of "Coloradans today".

Rawlings:

I don't think it's as hip as you think it is--maybe you've been in Vegas for too long. Just think of San Francisco, New York, Boston, DC, Chicago, or LA. Then think of Denver.

I agree completely. I have lived a few other places so have a basis for comparison. In fact, I sometimes find it laughable to hear some people talk about how sophisticated Colorado is. I remember when Krispy Kreme donuts came to the state; people went gaga! (And that was just a few years ago!) That said, it's been a nice place for us to live these past 27 years.