Why the "split" between "old" and "new" Coloradans . . . (Denver: farmers, cars)

[CosmicWizard]

Any thinking voter will laugh themselves silly at a candidate proclaiming themselves as a native, knowing full well that their family came originally from another state or country, knowing that their family has lived in Colorado for less than 10 generations, knowing that the original family member who setteld here obtained their land against the will of the native American Indians who occuppied the land for a much longer period of time. But, I'm talking about the thinking voter, so most likely the native candidate is making their appeal to the non-thinking, sheeple type voter.

PS: One could get the impression that I don't like so-called Colorado natives. That is not the case at all. Actually I have quite a few friends who have spent their entire lives in Colorado, though they rarely ever go around painting themselves as natives in an attempt to separate themselves from non natives and make themselves special because of that. So, it's not the people I don't like or ridicule, but the attitude that I'm better or more knowledgeable because I'm a native, that I openly ridicule. In this past election I voted for a self proclaimed Colorado Native, not becasue of that but because the guy seemed like the best candidate.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

Any thinking voter will laugh themselves silly at a candidate proclaiming themselves as a native, knowing full well that their family came originally from another state or country, knowing that their family has lived in Colorado for less than 10 generations, knowing that the original family member who setteld here obtained their land against the will of the native American Indians who occuppied the land for a much longer period of time. But, I'm talking about the thinking voter, so most likely the native candidate is making their appeal to the non-thinking, sheeple type voter.

Amen.

I had a pal who closed his emails with "Never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people." I think of that EVERY election.

The whole 'native' bumper sticker thing is silly at best, sour grapes at worst. A cool spoof would be to change the word "native" to something like "so what" or "who cares" or "says who?" or some other pithy rejoinder.

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

most likely the native candidate is making their appeal to the non-thinking, sheeple type voter.

It's not the people I don't like or ridicule, but the attitude that I'm better or more knowledgeable because I'm a native, that I openly ridicule.

Very well said, my sentiments exactly!!!

That said, I have yet to meet anyone in real life who would give me a hard time or look down on me for being out of state. Fortunately, any really harsh, open criticism of CA (or other) transplants I've encountered has been limited to cyber-life... and even then, it's mainly just coming from one source, which shall remain anonymous. <cough>jazz</cough>

[PacificIsle]

Definitely, an old Coloradian here. We used to live in Colo. Sprgs., and go up to Breckenridge and Vail skiing when it didn't cost you an arm and a leg. Certainly, remember the farms between the Springs and Denver. Likewise, with the Air Force Academy. It is so unrecognizable nowadays.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by treedonkey

Very well said, my sentiments exactly!!!

That said, I have yet to meet anyone in real life who would give me a hard time or look down on me for being out of state.

I agree. If I all I knew about Colorado was what I read on this forum, I would think Coloradans were some of the meanest bunch of skunks around. But in real actual life, I've never seen or experienced outright hatred towards out of staters, it's really just this forum. My family has been in Colorado for 100 years now, but I don't feel the need to go parading that fact every post. I'm a 3rd or 4th generation CO native, depending on how you count it. Well whoop di doo-- so are hundreds of thousands of other people! Its the anonymity of the internet that brings people out of the closet. Funny how every few months some newbie poster creates a new account and signs on here just to respond to threads like this, reigniting old counterproductive flame wars. You're part of the problem, too, treedonkey, I've seen you revive old threads similar to this one pointlessly. The best thing is to let the dust settle, let it become history and move on with your life. I've thought about quitting this forum entirely, after posting here for over two years now I've seen the same old threads over and over again, nothing ever changes, no one ever learns anything, it just goes in a circle over and over.

[Sockeye]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Amen.

I had a pal who closed his emails with "Never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people." I think of that EVERY election.

The whole 'native' bumper sticker thing is silly at best, sour grapes at worst. A cool spoof would be to change the word "native" to something like "so what" or "who cares" or "says who?" or some other pithy rejoinder.

"So What", "Who Cares", and "I Care" were very popular bumper stickers around here in the 70's and early 80's last century. Colorado was led by one of our best, if not THE best, governors in Dick Lamm. He spared us from the posssible scourge of the Winter Olympics, and a whole host of other boondoggle projects.

[jazzlover]

I guess, when all is said and done, I can only speak for myself on this subject: I was born in Colorado, and have spent over a half-century here. The former one can call an accident of birth; the latter has been a choice. I have also chosen not just to sit and take from this place, but to do what I can to give back to it--unlike so many others, from wherever they come, who only to choose to see Colorado for what they can suck out of it for themselves with no regard for the consequences.

To be sure, there are some long-time Coloradans who have no true respect for their home--particularly those who have made it their business to wantonly exploit it for themselves. But, I find those types far less numerous among those who have lived here for a long-time than I do among those who transplant here. Among that latter group, there are far too many who really don't care about this place aside from what pleasures it can inure to them. They have no true respect for this place, its history, or its heritage--and I find that reprehensible.

This, unfortunately, has been going on for a long time--and the results show glaringly on the Colorado landscape to those of us who have lived here for a long time, and choose--as I do--to confront what we see. Thirty-odd years ago, novelist James Michener wrote about it in his novel, "Centennial"--a fictionalized but historically pretty accurate book (and, later, a miniseries) about Colorado. In the miniseries, this was the final line. It speaks clearly in a few sentence how I, and a lot of other long-time Coloradans feel about this place with which we are entwined:

The earth isn't something you take from without ever thinking about giving back. The earth is something you protect every day of the year; a river is something you defend every inch of its course. Now, we have to look to the past, and get back to some basic principles, if there's going to be any future worth having.

[elemental]

Originally Posted by Sockeye

Wrong. You forgot about Webster in an earlier post, and that Native Americans trace their roots to the Siberian regions, eventually crossing the Bering Straight thousands of years ago. Therefore, your rigorous definition basically denies native status to anyone.

If we're going back beyond a few thousand years, then we're all from the same place, now aren't we?? Let's assume that Jazzlover's people have been here since it was first settled in the late 1800's- perhaps 7 generation or so. The Indians were here for how long before it was called AMERICA by anyone speaking a language that originated outside of what we now call the USA? This is really a futile argument for us invaders which is why I asked earlier for any Native Americans to contribute. I don't know any of it first-hand beyond what I've read. Surely there has to be someone who can recount how whites killed off all of the Buffalo or how they sold out their own people for the white man's treasures or were marched across this beautiful land to a spot in the plains more frequented by Tornadoes than man.

My own roots can be traced back to the 1540's according to the research my great uncle has done and one thing is for sure- while people categorize themselves as Germans or Italians, when you read the last names that comprise your family tree, you find that we call consist of much more than one race and nationality. Some of our relatives were on ships discovering new places while others were slaves on the very same ships. An amazing concept. The question is Who are you inside? Doesn't matter where you come from or what you believe you are for your actions speak truth.

Here's a great story that I watched play out first-hand: Our family knew a woman who I will call Alice. Alice came from a wealthy Jewish family- or so she thought. She summered in Adirondacks, had a coveted seat at temple and so on. Well, one day, there comes a knock on the door. The woman knocking is elderly and black. She has come to meet her daughter for the very first time since giving birth to an illegitimate child back in the racially charged 50's. The father was the elderly woman's boss- a white man who was married and part latino. Imagine for a second you believed you were from a proud Jewish family only to find out you were half black and zero Jewish? All of that looking down your nose would quickly cause you to be the butt of your own suspicion and inappropriate attacks. It's like a bad twilight zone. The woman had a nervous breakdown after the meeting...

This is why putting on airs is so ridiculous. Claiming that your parents decision to settle somewhere makes you better than those who settle today? Absurd. Let us all embrace those who choose to be among us during this short journey we have on earth. If they make a mistake, we bring them to justice. Otherwise, you might just make an unlikely friend.

If we were all blind we could only judge folks on their actions and their speech. Judge me on my actions and you'll find a fine human being. What will they find when you were judged on your actions?

[elemental]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Amen.

I had a pal who closed his emails with "Never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people." I think of that EVERY election.

The whole 'native' bumper sticker thing is silly at best, sour grapes at worst. A cool spoof would be to change the word "native" to something like "so what" or "who cares" or "says who?" or some other pithy rejoinder.

While in Montana, I picked up a great shirt with a picture of an old Indian Chief on a horse that said:

HOMELAND SECURITY SINCE 1492 or something to that effect. No matter where I go in that shirt, someone says "right on".

[elemental]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Amen.

I had a pal who closed his emails with "Never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people." I think of that EVERY election.

The whole 'native' bumper sticker thing is silly at best, sour grapes at worst. A cool spoof would be to change the word "native" to something like "so what" or "who cares" or "says who?" or some other pithy rejoinder.

Don't forget what large groups of stupid people did back east: the Salem witch trials. Could they have been any stupider?

On another note, there's a truck around here with the license plate NATIVE. All over the truck are plastered bumper stickers that say GO HOME. I will stop him next time I see the truck to learn how many generations from the Mayflower he is removed and his story. Who's taking odds on whether the discussion will be intelligent or end with fists? Either way, I'm in!

There's also a blue pickup that flys a huge rebel flag in the bed, has one taped over the back windows and says REDNECK across the windshield. Clearly, he's very proud of his origins and we're a good ways from the Deep South/ That one would definitely make for a good conversation... Wish me luck!