Why the "split" between "old" and "new" Coloradans . . . (Denver: condo, camping)

[Sockeye]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

I guess, when all is said and done, I can only speak for myself on this subject: I was born in Colorado, and have spent over a half-century here. The former one can call an accident of birth; the latter has been a choice. I have also chosen not just to sit and take from this place, but to do what I can to give back to it--unlike so many others, from wherever they come, who only to choose to see Colorado for what they can suck out of it for themselves with no regard for the consequences.

To be sure, there are some long-time Coloradans who have no true respect for their home--particularly those who have made it their business to wantonly exploit it for themselves. But, I find those types far less numerous among those who have lived here for a long-time than I do among those who transplant here. Among that latter group, there are far too many who really don't care about this place aside from what pleasures it can inure to them. They have no true respect for this place, its history, or its heritage--and I find that reprehensible.

This, unfortunately, has been going on for a long time--and the results show glaringly on the Colorado landscape to those of us who have lived here for a long time, and choose--as I do--to confront what we see. Thirty-odd years ago, novelist James Michener wrote about it in his novel, "Centennial"--a fictionalized but historically pretty accurate book (and, later, a miniseries) about Colorado. In the miniseries, this was the final line. It speaks clearly in a few sentence how I, and a lot of other long-time Coloradans feel about this place with which we are entwined:

You speak for a lot more than you think! Another quote I like: "Be Worthy of Your Heritage" -Whitman

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Most old-time farmers were DELIGHTED to get off the land and work in a factory where they could make a living and not be subject to the vagaries of mother nature. Farming was tremendously hard in those days.

My father was the first in his family to work in a steel mill. He supported his parents and an adult brother during the depression (one of the lucky ones, for sure, who could get a job).

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

I guess, when all is said and done, I can only speak for myself on this subject: I was born in Colorado, and have spent over a half-century here. The former one can call an accident of birth; the latter has been a choice. I have also chosen not just to sit and take from this place, but to do what I can to give back to it--unlike so many others, from wherever they come, who only to choose to see Colorado for what they can suck out of it for themselves with no regard for the consequences.

To be sure, there are some long-time Coloradans who have no true respect for their home--particularly those who have made it their business to wantonly exploit it for themselves. But, I find those types far less numerous among those who have lived here for a long-time than I do among those who transplant here. Among that latter group, there are far too many who really don't care about this place aside from what pleasures it can inure to them. They have no true respect for this place, its history, or its heritage--and I find that reprehensible.

This, unfortunately, has been going on for a long time--and the results show glaringly on the Colorado landscape to those of us who have lived here for a long time, and choose--as I do--to confront what we see. Thirty-odd years ago, novelist James Michener wrote about it in his novel, "Centennial"--a fictionalized but historically pretty accurate book (and, later, a miniseries) about Colorado. In the miniseries, this was the final line. It speaks clearly in a few sentence how I, and a lot of other long-time Coloradans feel about this place with which we are entwined:

I sincerely doubt that anyone on here would disagree with your words about the travesty resulting from those who have no respect for this land or for the earth as a whole. But to assume that it's caused mainly by people of a particular demographic (e.g. transplants) is pure ignorance, because:
a) We really have no way of pinpointing exactly who is at fault for the worst of our problems.
b) Even if many 'transplants' have done more than their share of exploitation, there are still many more who have not, so why should they take the blame for all of it?
c) The degradation of our natural resources is a worldwide problem, and it will never be solved or even lessened through bitterness or blame.

[CosmicWizard]

treedonkey wrote:

I sincerely doubt that anyone on here would disagree with your words about the travesty resulting from those who have no respect for this land or for the earth as a whole. But to assume that it's caused mainly by people of a particular demographic (e.g. transplants) is pure ignorance, because:
a) We really have no way of pinpointing exactly who is at fault for the worst of our problems.
b) Even if many 'transplants' have done more than their share of exploitation, there are still many more who have not, so why should they take the blame for all of it?
c) The degradation of our natural resources is a worldwide problem, and it will never be solved or even lessened through bitterness or blame.

I agree with you...100% on every word! I especially resonate with the words I made bold from your line C:

c) The degradation of our natural resources is a worldwide problem, and it will never be solved or even lessened through bitterness or blame.

IMO, the bitteness and blame actually prolong the problem. Those being blamed, who might privately admit to the destructiveness of their practices, will continue them anyway to spite those who are doing the blaming. Resentful behaviour begets only more resentful behaviour.

[elemental]

[/indent]IMO, the bitteness and blame actually prolong the problem. Those being blamed, who might privately admit to the destructiveness of their practices, will continue them anyway to spite those who are doing the blaming. Resentful behaviour begets only more resentful behaviour.[/quote]

Those who exploit the land are probably not here trying to help others see, they are out taking from people, the land, the environment, or whatever it is they exploit.

Hate begets hate. Bigotry is nothing more than a synonym for hate and those who claim elevation over another race or people are Bigots. When the final curtain comes and you are called to answer, I hope all have enough good deeds under their belt to outweigh the hate.

One thing few people talk about openly is the desire to live amongst one's people. this goes beyond race and nationality, but crosses into lifestyles as well. If your clone moved in across the street would you be happy? The answer is very telling.

[elemental]

Hello All. I wrote this about a year and half ago and it would seem now is as good a time as any to reintroduce the ideas:

Good evening all. A few weeks back, I said to a friend that we, supposedly intelligent beings lose sight of how important every second of our life is given the limited time we have on this planet. In 100 years, will anyone care that we felt it was too dry, or that Denver had become crowded compared to 1968? No, they will not and chances are, they will not speak of us in their lifetime.

So why is then, that we all spend so much of our time jumping up and down over things we cannot control and that in the grand scheme of things, do not have a profound effect on our health or well-being?

Will any of our most important issues even be remembered?

Instead, how about trying to improve something by taking physical action even if that means calling up a friend you don't see often enough just to arrange a lunch date.. TODAY? Perhaps a walk around the block where we actually engage our neighbors; maybe a drive over to a town we don't often visit to look for something we hadn't seen before or meant to do? Perhaps just getting out at sunset to be captivated by the views we so enjoy here in CO.

Anyone?

[Mike from back east]

We do remember, quite fondly, people like Teddy Roosevelt who had a huge say in setting up the National Parks, which we enjoy today. Thanks to TR and others like Henry Ford, our natural wonders haven't been sprawled over or bulldozed like the coal barons have done to the mountain tops of WV, much of which today is a wretched hell on earth.

I also recall how TR balanced the ruthless greed of robber barons with the needs of the little guy; TR's famous "Fair Deal." I'm of the opinion that we CAN balance competing interests just fine as opposed to "all or none" politics which is a fools game where we risk losing it all if we don't find workable solutions for those at the table.

We should be as smart today as those old dudes were, they knew the score. Not sure who is today's champion that will be remembered in a hundred years, but there are ideas and causes out there worth championing. Maybe it'll be the woman who invents a battery technology that makes gasoline powered cars obsolete for 80% of us....who knows.

[CosmicWizard]

Mike, I always enjoy reading your posts, especially the possibility thinking that permeates your ideas and opinions!

elemanetal, great job putting things in perspective!

[elemental]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

We do remember, quite fondly, people like Teddy Roosevelt who had a huge say in setting up the National Parks, which we enjoy today. Thanks to TR and others like Henry Ford, our natural wonders haven't been sprawled over or bulldozed like the coal barons have done to the mountain tops of WV, much of which today is a wretched hell on earth.

I also recall how TR balanced the ruthless greed of robber barons with the needs of the little guy; TR's famous "Fair Deal." I'm of the opinion that we CAN balance competing interests just fine as opposed to "all or none" politics which is a fools game where we risk losing it all if we don't find workable solutions for those at the table.

We should be as smart today as those old dudes were, they knew the score. Not sure who is today's champion that will be remembered in a hundred years, but there are ideas and causes out there worth championing. Maybe it'll be the woman who invents a battery technology that makes gasoline powered cars obsolete for 80% of us....who knows.

Agreed Mike. The old dudes conducted themselves as men should, not as the masses thought.

[3 Generations in Colo]

Jazzlover: This list just proves that you can read the fine print on a map. NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!