Why the "split" between "old" and "new" Coloradans . . . (Denver: refrigerators, place to live)

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by 3 Generations in Colo

Jazzlover: This list just proves that you can read the fine print on a map. NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!

Considering that I have been to just about everyplace in the fine print on the Colorado map--most many times--and that I have friends and acquaintances in just about every county of the state must not count for anything in your mind, then?

[CosmicWizard]

Hey Jazz....Don't let one poster ruffle your feathers. You know we all love ya, and have you high on a pedestal when it comes to knowledge about Colorado. I/we might not always like what you say and/or the way you say it, but your knowledge of Colorado is rarely questioned by most of us.

[DOUBLE H]

Originally Posted by 3 Generations in Colo

Jazzlover: This list just proves that you can read the fine print on a map. NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!

I've lived in this state all 58 years worth of my life. There has been a variety of subjects that have been discussed on the Colorado forum and that go back decades; like the 1965 Denver flood that sent trailer homes from South Santa Fe Drive in Englewood clear the hell up the Platte river to Ft. Morgan, the 1974 fire that burned up a downtown block in Durango, a plant (and eventual closing and dismantling of the town Uravan) in 1983. And on many, many other subjects Jazzlover can run circles around me regarding Colorado.

I've driven over 1.5 million miles in this state over 4 decades of driving and Jazzlover STILL knows these roads better than I do. He also knows the politics(yuck), general history, water rights issues, and just about every other issue I can think of regarding this state as well and most likely better than anyone else on city data.

For your first post, you seem to be a combative sort. Unless this a "dump and run" post, why not just ask Jazzlover a question of what is on your mind? Something is obviously bugging you. Subjects are bantered back and forth, but common SENSE and common GROUND can be met by simply addressing the issues themselves. That's what this forum is supposed to be about.

Come on 3 Generations in Colo., you can do better than that!

[CosmicWizard]

A quote from a Jim Stiles article in todays GJ Free Press:

When I arrived, the New West was not even a part of the lexicon. Now, the rural west is being contested by Old and New Westerners alike, who claim to know what future bodes best for our beloved open spaces. The contradictions in these misguided positions, from both ends of the spectrum are striking. Consider at least some of the following:

Read the entire article: Old West' vs. ‘New West' ... the two-headed monster

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

A quote from a Jim Stiles article in todays GJ Free Press:

When I arrived, the New West was not even a part of the lexicon. Now, the rural west is being contested by Old and New Westerners alike, who claim to know what future bodes best for our beloved open spaces. The contradictions in these misguided positions, from both ends of the spectrum are striking. Consider at least some of the following:

Read the entire article: Old West' vs. ‘New West' ... the two-headed monster

An excellent read. There is a lot of truth in his statements. I'm one who actually does try to walk the line between the two groups: I do own a 4WD, but I look at it as a tool to get someplace, not something to go around tearing up the countryside just to see if I and my vehicle can do it. I firmly support ranching, but realize that there are far too many ranchers who are not good stewards of the land. I don't want to see more development in the mountains--that makes me an enemy of the hypocrites who profess to love the mountains, but want their trophy home or resort condo in the middle of them; and many long-timers who have prostituted (and I mean that term in its fullest negative sense) themselves into the land development, construction and real estate businesses to make a living. I support reasonable mining and resource extraction, but I also know that that industry can also spin out of control into a very abusive assault on both the environment and social fabric of an area. I believe in the wise use and stewardship of our water resources, but I also believe it is irresponsible and dangerous to dam up every canyon, divert every drop, and commit every bit of water to human use. I fondly remember when every Colorado mountain town had a sawmill (remember the smell of those "tepee" slash burners in just about every town) and when logging was major industry--I also remember the ugly clear-cuts back then, but--oddly--how our forests seem much "sicker" now. I also remember when there was a lot less protected wilderness, but how it was a lot easier to find solitude back then. Maybe most of all, I remember when Colorado's small mountain towns were pretty much "normal" towns that happened to be in beautiful settings; today they have a lot nicer lodging, restaurants, shopping and amenities but have lost most all of their small town character.

The writer is right--it isn't all black and white. What I find troubling, however, is that there are getting to be fewer and fewer of we old-line Coloradans that actually knew what things were like back when--and most of the newbies don't care. That's too bad because a lot of what made Colorado such a neat place is being destroyed by that ignorance.

[suzco]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

A quote from a Jim Stiles article in todays GJ Free Press:

When I arrived, the New West was not even a part of the lexicon. Now, the rural west is being contested by Old and New Westerners alike, who claim to know what future bodes best for our beloved open spaces. The contradictions in these misguided positions, from both ends of the spectrum are striking. Consider at least some of the following:

Read the entire article: Old West' vs. ‘New West' ... the two-headed monster

Thanks for posting this. It's a great article. It made me think, nod in agreement, shake my head, laugh; it reminded me of what makes me love Colorado, and know why it's home.

[Katiana]

The article should be required reading for all Colorado residents. I have had many of those thoughts, but the writer said it a lot better than I could have.

[CosmicWizard]

Here is a link to his ( Jim Stiles ) online newspaper, The Canyon Country Zephyr

He used to publish an actual paper version until recently. We'd pick up a copy everytime we went thru Moab. Read his story.

[Lastfire]

As a two year resident in Colorado, I have bought a small duplex, no yard, on the edge of the northern foothills, and love camping alone...away from the crowds. Have always been a steward of the land (marsh restoration, prairie management, hawk counter, etc.) (from Los Angeles to Florida and all states in between). You do not have to be from Colorado to appreciate the land, history, people's struggles, and the sprawl. Additionally I have driven to Alden, Pueblo, Pumpkin Corner, Springfield, and Montrose. I am trying to learn about my new state. I read this forum daily to understand issues about which people are concerned. I have spent the first two years here reading every piece of history about Colorado that I can get my hands on. You cannot understand the land, the culture, and the people until you read the history. I do not want to be a "new" or an "old" Coloradon. I want to be part of the people who love this place. By the way, I am in my 7th decade and I still volunteer, camp, hike, and HAVE never believed in McMansions.

[danskone8]

Some of us could have fun trying to identify the counties where those communities are located. I did not see an unfamiliar community because of my serving as a search and rescue volunteer and a volunteer fire-fighter in several mountain communities as well as Adams County. During the flood of 1965, I was Adams County Red Cross Director of Emergency Services. My volunteers, in turn, performed emergency services from Waterton up to Brighton, including the roping of propane tanks and securing them to trees and bridges to hopefully prevent an unanticipated destructive explosion. Many paid firefighters refused to assist, even though they were being paid to assist. My favorite place to live has been Blue Valley, up above Idaho Springs, at roughly 10,000 elevation. Crow Hill (near Bailey) was not so bad either. Perhaps it would not be so crowded in Colorado if we exiled anyone who could not prove that they have given of themselves for any humanitarian effort. Wonder how many people would remain in Colorado.