Why the "split" between "old" and "new" Coloradans . . . (Denver: homes, buy)

[jazzlover]

Well, it's a difference in perspective, experience, background, and attitudes. To illustrate, I'm posting an excerpt from a book draft that I'm working on about Colorado's heritage. This might give some insight from one who lived in Colorado for about a half-century:

You know you’re an "old" Coloradan when you can remember when:

• There were real farms between Denver and Boulder, and between Loveland and Fort Collins.
• The Air Force Academy was out in the country.
• Stapleton was the airport, and it almost was out in the country.
• Highlands Ranch was—well—a ranch.
• “South Park” wasn’t a cable TV show, and it still had water in it.
• The Arkansas River Valley east of Pueblo grew more than tumbleweeds.
• You knew what a “slash-burner” was and that every mountain town had one or two.
• Vail was a sheep pasture.
• “Junior” and “Senior” were important because they described your water rights.
• Instead of your kid knowing what “YouTube” is and how to use it, he knew what a “siphon tube” was and how to start it.
• People drank Coors or Tivoli beer in Denver and Walter’s beer in Pueblo.
• The Gates V-belt on your car was actually made in Denver, and so was the Samsonite suitcase in the trunk.
• Telluride was a mining town without a train anymore, or many tourists, either.
• Climax was a mining town with a train and NO tourists.
• Silverton was a mining town with a train and lots of tourists at lunchtime.
• You knew that “cribs” didn’t refer to something that a baby slept in.
• The Little League team (in uniform) could usually buy a pitcher of beer in Leadville on Saturday afternoon.
• You could probably gamble in Black Hawk and it WASN’T legal.
• You could buy Geiger counters, blasting caps, and dynamite over-the-counter to go uranium prospecting.
• “Hard rock” wasn’t a club, but a mine.
• You knew what “stopes,” “adits,” and “jack drills” were, and you could actually make money “mucking.”
• “High grade” didn’t refer to drugs, but referred to ore.
• “Natives” were fish, and—unlike either the fish or the people in Colorado so named today, there were lots of ‘em.
• The most powerful group in the State Legislature was the “Cowboy Caucus.”
• Western Slope water pretty much stayed on the Western Slope.
• You knew what a “beet dump” was and what it smelled like.
• People sprinkled their “clinkers” in the alley to melt the ice. You knew what “clinkers” were.
• The “domain” wasn’t something on the internet, but the public lands where ranchers grazed their cattle and sheep.
• All Colorado license plates were green and white, had two letters and up to four numbers; and you could tell where somebody was from by the letters.
• There was a bounty on coyotes and you would bring the ears to the County Treasurer to collect the bounty.
• In springtime, you’d order an iced tea and a glass of water in the café in a mountain town and you couldn’t see the difference.
• You were less likely to get Montezuma’s revenge drinking from a mountain stream than you were from drinking the town water.
• Before you could wash the dishes in the sink, you’d have to throw the tadpoles out of the water that came out of the tap (city water).
• Some state highways were still gravel.
• The town ambulance was often a hearse.
• You knew what a “DuPont lure” was (dynamite) and that it was a quick way to catch your limit when you didn’t have time for “conventional” fishing.
• “Rich” people went to Aspen to ski; “poorer” people went to Winter Park—and everybody who skied broke their leg at least once.
• “Bear traps” were ski bindings and they did the same thing to your leg that a real bear trap did to the bear’s.
• “Jeeping” and drinking beer went together. The worse the road, the more beer. When stopped, the left side of the Jeep was the men’s room; the right was the ladies’ room. Nearby bushes were appreciated, but sometimes optional.
• Up in the mountains, “Skunk cabbage” (actually False Hellebore) leaves could be used as a substitute for toilet paper. It didn’t work very well, especially if you didn’t shake the ants off the leaves first. It still doesn’t.
• When you got home from your camping trip, you would strip and throw your clothes in the dry bathtub so you could see the ticks crawl out. You’d put kerosene or the head of a just snuffed match on the butts of the ones that had burrowed into you, so they’d back out.
• Every pickup had a “sheepherder’s jack” in the back and the driver knew how to use it.
• Drinking whiskey “family-style” out of the bottle was a camping tradition. The cork got thrown in the campfire.
• Having a “belt” for breakfast in hunting camp was acceptable because the whiskey was the only thing not frozen solid.
• “Going soft” when camping meant sleeping in a tent instead of “under the stars.”
• The only “self-service” gas was siphoning and it usually took two or three beers to get that gas taste out of your mouth.

How old do you have to be to remember all of this? I’m a baby-boomer and I can remember all of it in Colorado. Too bad it changed . . .

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

.
• All Colorado license plates were green and white, had two letters and up to four numbers; and you could tell where somebody was from by the letters. .

I kind of remember this one. VE for Walsenburg and G-something for Pleblo (sic).

[BlueWillowPlate]

I remember a lot of that, though not all.
I certainly remember the license plates.
And how Telluride used to be.
And the ticks after camping.

[canyontiger2]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Well, it's a difference in perspective, experience, background, and attitudes. To illustrate, I'm posting an excerpt from a book draft that I'm working on about Colorado's heritage. ...snip....

Good answer. The new ones say they want the change to our life style. Then the first thing they do is try to change it.

[vfrpilot]

The new ones say they want the change to our life style. Then the first thing they do is try to change it.

I can appreciate you 'old-timers' longing for the days before the 'new ones' arrived, but things have changed everywhere and most have nothing to do with outsiders moving in. A lot has to do with the ease of travel and communication that Americans enjoy today as opposed to 50 years ago. Do you really long for the days before cars, trains, planes, televisions, computers, etc? Do you long for the days when 5% of CO residents were members of the Klan?
How long does it take to be considered an 'old timer' anyway? Isn't there always someone who can consider you a 'newcomer', all the way back to American Indians?
Just about every state that has a viable economy has growth issues. The areas that have no growth, like eastern CO, are very depressing as young people are moving out as soon as they are able, leaving only the 'old timers'.
I don't want to be disrespectful of your history here in CO, but don't blame us 'newcomers' for all the ills of life in the 21st century. IMHO, one of the great things about life is that it is continually moving forward.

[Rawlings]

I'm a native--but I'm only 23. Colorado has changed a bit. It's grown some. It's more big time and a little more diverse. But I'm constantly amazed that, despite the changes, so much remains the same. The people have the same traditional attitudes about things. People still care about the same stuff. And that's a good thing in my book.

[winglady]

You left out:

-going to a game at Bears Stadium on a warm summer evening (minor league baseball)

-lining up for a pizza at Michael's Pizza near 8th & Colorado Blvd

-worrying about Cherry Creek & So. Platte flooding (Denver) or the Arkansas flooding (Pueblo) (will they EVER build a dam to prevent floods?!?!?)

-when a trip from Denver to Littleton felt like a trip to the country

-when your driving instructor had you drive south PAST Hampden Blvd so you'd get a feel for driving across the open plains

-when the only highways into the mountains from Denver were US 6 and US 40

[canyontiger2]

Originally Posted by vfrpilot

I can appreciate you 'old-timers' longing for the days before the 'new ones' arrived, but things have changed everywhere and most have nothing to do with outsiders moving in. A lot has to do with the ease of travel and communication that Americans enjoy today as opposed to 50 years ago. Do you really long for the days before cars, trains, planes, televisions, computers, etc? Do you long for the days when 5% of CO residents were members of the Klan?
How long does it take to be considered an 'old timer' anyway? Isn't there always someone who can consider you a 'newcomer', all the way back to American Indians?
Just about every state that has a viable economy has growth issues. The areas that have no growth, like eastern CO, are very depressing as young people are moving out as soon as they are able, leaving only the 'old timers'.
I don't want to be disrespectful of your history here in CO, but don't blame us 'newcomers' for all the ills of life in the 21st century. IMHO, one of the great things about life is that it is continually moving forward.

No you do not understand. I do not want to go back to the "good o'days" as they say. I like modern convenances as much as the next guy. I am referring to ideas that some people have, that we are ignorant, back-woodsy etc. And they are going to bring us up to date on our beliefs. The selfishness of land--for instance, we used to be able to ask a rancher if we could fish on a creek that runs thro or could we cross his land to get to public. Usually the answer was "sure just close the gates" No more, big money from another state has bought some of the ranches and the first thing they do is built fancy fences and put up private land signs everywhere. Where they come from there is no public lands and they want to keep you from getting to it so they can play on it privately. The so call free thinking, the entitlement , I am entitled to--no matter what it does to anyone one else---like a 2 yr old thinks. Small towns and native ranchers, farmers have managed to retain some of the friendliness, helpfulness and caring for one another that has disappeared. And yes, many of us not just me, blame this on people that come in and want to bring the very thing they are trying to escape. Sure Colorado has produced some nuts too, we certainly are not perfect but normal people used to out number the nuts.

I am sure this post will really stir some people up and that is not what I intend. I am trying to explain my feelings, and most of my friends. And why many of retired ex Coloradans come back after they retire. We are losing the companionship of neighbors etc.

MANY THAT MOVE TO COLORADO ARE OF THE SAME MIND, really nice friendly people and layed back. Many are coming from an area that believe the way we do. But the ones that are so radial are also very pushy, rude,selfish, and well, radial. If you don't see it the way they do---then you are just ignorant. They must have not been taken out behind the barn enough as kids. Lots of things were cured there but of coarse that now is consistered child abuse. There is a difference between spanking and beating but that is another subject. Let's NOT get into that.

[canyontiger2]

Originally Posted by Rawlings

I'm a native--but I'm only 23. Colorado has changed a bit. It's grown some. It's more big time and a little more diverse. But I'm constantly amazed that, despite the changes, so much remains the same. The people have the same traditional attitudes about things. People still care about the same stuff. And that's a good thing in my book.

Yes it is but we are getting out numbered. You see SOME changes but you are 23. What do you think your parents or grandparents see?

[Rawlings]

Originally Posted by canyontiger2

Yes it is but we are getting out numbered. You see SOME changes but you are 23. What do you think your parents or grandparents see?

My grandparents see A LOT of change. My parents see much change--but obviously less than my grandparents. And I, surely, see less change than either of them.

Here's the thing: in our fast-paced and quickly changing world you have to expect change. The country--and Colorado--are becoming urbanized, more convenient, much more modern. In Colorado we've got more sports teams, nicer homes and buildings, bigger roads, bigger and better cars, etc.

I often catch myself getting resentful or angry about these changes. I'm a traditional, suburban, kind of guy--into church, family, and the rest of it. I worry that we're becoming a lot like Southern California and the state I love is becoming a distant memory.

But it's not. It will not. Sometime you have to take a step back and realize that for all the change, so much stays the same. There's a stubborn resiliancy to most folks here. People still have that rugged, traditional, family-centered view of life despite the changes.

Colorado has always been the kind of place you come to to find a little paradise, to succeed, to find a place where you can thrive (a lot like America). That's still largely the same. I'll conceed that a lot of Californians come here and try to convert the state instead of blending in. That's so obnoxious. But there's too many people that care about Colorado of old--and certainly new--to let that happen.