U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-20-2009, 11:57 AM
 
90 posts, read 223,629 times
Reputation: 62

Advertisements

Travelismylife,
I have been planning to move to Summit County in a year or two, and of all the challenges and obstacles of being happy there (for a single 50ish, empty nested, woman from PA), I have never heard that women are seen as "second class citizens". How bad is it? Can you give me some examples? Maybe we should start another thread about this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-20-2009, 04:26 PM
 
Location: OKLAHOMA
1,783 posts, read 3,602,517 times
Reputation: 942
Well I leave Wednesday evening for a two week stay in Trinidad, then Pagosa Springs and lastly Chama. We will look at homes in all areas, I kind of know the Chama pretty well. This is retirement, so we are not considering jobs. Love Northern New Mexico but do I really want to sell a ranch in Eastern Oklahoma for just a nice home on a lot. Not sure, but I do miss the mountains.

Someone mentioned Salt Lake City. We were stationed at Tooele, Utah just south of Salt Lake City and lived there for 3 plus years. Had two daughters there within 17 months, so I had fit in. I like Utah and would considered St. George but with my girls living in Stillwater, OK (near OKCity) I am thinking that would be too far of a drive. Not to mention my parents took retirement in Bella Vista, Ar.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2009, 07:34 AM
 
Location: passing through Rockford, il
4 posts, read 16,250 times
Reputation: 11
How would Manitou Springs fit into the definition of living in a mountain town?


Like BAHOWELL, I have been researching a move to Colorado, but specifically Manitou Springs. Its Colorado Springs adjacent, it seems to be its own little town in the mountains, and it sits right at the base of Pikes Peak.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2009, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Bend, OR
3,296 posts, read 8,419,163 times
Reputation: 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadsong66 View Post
How would Manitou Springs fit into the definition of living in a mountain town?


Like BAHOWELL, I have been researching a move to Colorado, but specifically Manitou Springs. Its Colorado Springs adjacent, it seems to be its own little town in the mountains, and it sits right at the base of Pikes Peak.
I suppose it would depend on what defines a mountain town for you. It's at a higher elevation than Colo Springs, smaller, a bit touristy, and like you said, sits at the base of Pikes Peak. That seems to be what most people think of in a mountain town anymore.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-26-2009, 11:40 PM
 
8 posts, read 20,969 times
Reputation: 13
For the person who wanted to know about women being treated as 2nd class citizens. If you need a job when you get here you can forget about it unless you want to work in retail, the grocery store, at one of the ski areas (all will pay you $8 to $10 an hour) or join the ranks of the 100's of realtors in the County (that pay right now runs about -$5,000 a year due to the economy). In my 12 years here all the educated, professional women I know who are single and 50ish have moved down to Denver or out-of-state as there is opportunity in those places and none here. I know a few women in that age group who are married and live in Denver while their husbands live up here. Several single women I personally know had lived here for years and tried to make a go of it both by working for others or starting up their own businesses but eventually moved out of the area. Most women in that age group who reside here don't work and don't need to as they have pensions, trust funds, divorce settlements or large inheritances. Many of the ones who do need to work end up working with their husbands in a family run business. It is a man's world here - more men overall and lots of "manly" jobs which means manual labor.

Women are not seen as needing a good job with a good income. Examples: women physicians run out of town many times over the years (there are a couple of them here presently); I was offered a position in my field for SUBSTANTIALLY LESS than I made when I got out of graduate school several years prior and told that they knew that was the case; I was told in one position that I wasn't welcome nor would any one else be but I was a necessary evil due to my background (gee, what a pleasant work environment that created); I was also told by someone else it was a privilege to live here and too bad if the pay is $8 an hour. One woman, who is a lawyer and had a practice in another State for years, ended up working as a receptionist but eventually moved to Denver to work as a lawyer again.

If that sounds like your kind of place then you'll love it here. If you are accustomed to and like small town politics at their finest then you'll love it here. If you like long, cold and snowy winters then you'll love it here. If you are an avid skiier or snowboarder then you'll love it here. If you are entrepreneurial from a resort area standpoint and/or have the ability to telecommute you'll love it here. If you don't mind that your friends will most likely change often due to the high rate of turnover (average time someone lives here is 2 years) then you'll love it here. If you like spectacular scenery and can stomach the negatives then you'll love it here. If none of that appeals to you then you most likely won't like it here and won't stay long. If you like a vanilla environment then you'll love it here. I personally need more culture than is offered here, less homogeneity, more people interaction and easier access to creature comforts. I also don't like paying 30 cents more per gallon of gas than in Denver. If you don't mind paying higher prices on everything, limited choices, getting your mail at a post office box (home delivery is only in a couple of areas) and don't mind the inconvenience of the location then you'll love it here. The summers here are gorgeous but short. It is a great place to escape from life's problems and there are many who move here for that very reason. I was once told that the people who move here do so because they can't make it anywhere else. That may not be true anymore since we have so many young and old wealthy retirees moving in on a regular basis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-27-2009, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,832,501 times
Reputation: 9316
The lower salary issue is not limited to women only. I took a 25% pay cut in my position as a database programmer/analyst when I moved from the east coat to Colorado. I knew going in that the payscale was lower, and I grudgingly accepted that as a trade off for having an opportunity to live in a place that suited my preferences more harmoniously. During my 60 years on this planet, I've had to make trade-offs again and again. I'm at a point now ( not quite! ) where I stopped whining about it, and simply accept it as part of life. Like you travelismylife, I prefer a job with very little manual labor, yet I understand that many jobs in rural areas ( anywhere in Canada or the USA ) are going to be manual labor type jobs. That's just the way the cookie crumbles away from the bigger population centers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-27-2009, 09:40 AM
 
Location: New Zealand
1,872 posts, read 5,776,623 times
Reputation: 5564
^^^ travelismylife, are you serious? It seems that everything and everybody else is to blame for your problems except for you, your choices, and your preconceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelismylife View Post
If you need a job when you get here you can forget about it unless you want to work in retail, the grocery store, at one of the ski areas (all will pay you $8 to $10 an hour) or join the ranks of the 100's of realtors in the County (that pay right now runs about -$5,000 a year due to the economy).
That's because those are the majority of jobs up here (along with construction). Now I am not female, so it may well be that I don't know the true extent of this issue. But we (my wife and I) know of at least 5 female physicians in the county (about 40% of the physician population in those clinics). One of our neighbors is an architect. We know two female restaurant owners. Most of the office type jobs in the county are with either with Vail Resorts or Intrawest (many IT jobs, which are traditionally male-dominated). The COOs of Keystone and Breck are both women. But it could be as you say.

Quote:
If you like spectacular scenery and can stomach the negatives then you'll love it here.
What a blanket statement that means nothing -- if you can stomach the negatives, you can enjoy the positives -- wow, what an insight!

Quote:
If you like a vanilla environment then you'll love it here.
Hmm, among our immediate neighbors and friends we count IT people, architects, mining engineer, construction foreman, bartender, physicians, finance person, ski bums, ski instructors, manual laborer, ski shop tech, manager of a car repair shop, daycare operator, and more. Ethnicities include white, black, Hispanic, and Asian. Religions include atheist, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu. Is it diverse like NYC? Obviously not. But to say it's homogeneous means you're not seeing.

Quote:
I personally need more culture than is offered here, less homogeneity, more people interaction and easier access to creature comforts.
Are you kidding? People move here because of the outdoors, not because of culture. Or did you not know that? Would you move to Iowa and then lambast it because it's too rural for you, rather than your own choice for moving there without knowing what it was like? We like a variety of restaurants and cuisines, something which is lacking here. We knew that before we moved, and were willing to accept that trade-off (in return for other things). On the people interaction front, our experience has been different. We run into our neighbors all the time when we're out walking or playing at the park with our son. Familiar faces are also common at grocery stores, bookstores, restaurants, ski slopes. Not sure what creature comforts you're talking about that you can't get, but we (and people we know) seem to manage fine.

Quote:
I also don't like paying 30 cents more per gallon of gas than in Denver. If you don't mind paying higher prices on everything, limited choices, getting your mail at a post office box (home delivery is only in a couple of areas) and don't mind the inconvenience of the location then you'll love it here.
I always chuckle when I hear people complain about high prices somewhere (or extol the virtues of lower prices somewhere). Do you also not like paying more for gas in Denver than in say Newton, Iowa, or Wallace, Nebraska? Why not? Because you value certain things (culture) and are willing to the higher price for them. Everybody has a price they're willing to pay for what they value. If you really value culture, you pay the price and live in NYC. Or if you don't value it that badly, you pay a lower price and live in say Denver. It's all relative.

Now I do NOT mean to suggest this is utopia. Definitely not. There are many legitimate issues and challenges to living here (high cost of real estate, scarcity of well-paying jobs, sprawl, wildfire hazard, transient nature of a large part of the population). But your post seems like you just want to complain. I feel sorry that you can live amidst such natural beauty and only see ugliness and negatives, but I guess I have a different outlook. You want a perfect life with great scenery, great paying jobs, great low prices, great everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-27-2009, 09:57 AM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,521,507 times
Reputation: 7597
I lived up in Vail for seven years, Steamboat for a while, and did a crapper full of work in Summit County and Aspen. I never overtly came across any discrimination of women. In fact women of all ages are welcomed due to the acute shortage of single women.

My sister has been in Vail now for eight years and has been very, very successful, moving up through different jobs and has been with her current company for five years or so. And has done very well there.

I find with people if you have a crappy attitude with them, they are going to bounce that right back at you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-27-2009, 04:13 PM
 
90 posts, read 223,629 times
Reputation: 62
Travelismylife,
I appreciate you sharing your point of view. Lots of what you say is true, I know, although, do you realize that you sound mean and bitter at times? You need to take some deep breaths! You need a vacation! As far as your overall views of mtn living for women, tho, I think you are seeing things as many women, of young and older ages, may see life in a small resort mountain town; especially if they didn't choose to be there but are there because of their husband's job. Mountain life and particularily ski resort life is very different from suburban city life and to be honest that is all I got from what you wrote. I think you just see things there in a negative light because the quality of life scale tips that way for you (and I do believe the majority of women). I really am not hearing any 2nd class citizen proof though. Women are snubbed in the work world everywhere.
You probably would love it here in PA, with our moderate winters, 4 distinct seasons, everything you want from city culture (Philly) to mountains (well, hills) to the seashore within 90 minutes and a roomy cul de sac suburbian colonial style house in a safe neighborhood that has a schedule for deck parties, red trashcans and green lawns.
So far, my Summit Co scale is (still) tipping toward the positive side. I realize I am not like "most" women, especially my age. I love to be outdoors, love skiing, love the cold, am sick of pavement and traffic, and believe me, even here community is hard to find because kids grow up and then noone is in their homes anyway. I hope I can find work as a teacher there but I am preparing financially if no jobs are available which I fully expect. I think you are right, that I will most likely end up working in retail somewhere. Like you say, I may be one of those who tries it for a few years and then leaves. I believe however that you and I (and all women) should make life happen and not be in situations that cause bitterness and unhappiness. Maybe you too can try to become more proactive and either move to a place where you are better suited or make things there in Summit work for you. You know I am already volunteering for BOEC when I visit. I am a ski instr but I even gave them a week this summer at one of their camps. I am so glad to know that I will be able to work with handicapped like I do here at home. Are there perhaps gems, like BOEC is for me, that you haven't uncovered yet?? Or have you exhausted that idea already?
Anyway, I hope you stay and that more women stay and make Summit Co work for them so that they can enjoy the obvious +'s about living there (no need to list them) but not be giving up who they are either.
Thanks for taking the time to give me your viewpoint. It's all helpful.

Last edited by 5thIndian; 09-27-2009 at 04:37 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-27-2009, 09:02 PM
 
8 posts, read 20,969 times
Reputation: 13
If I sound bitter then that's the way it is and I won't apologize. The bitterness is about the lack of jobs for women with educations. I am an educated woman with a graduate degree from an Ivy League school which I attained at a later stage in life (40's) which means I had no $$$ when I moved here and needed a career that paid more than $8 an hour. My particular profession is not accepted in this community (although in many of the other mountain communities it is). There are absolutely NO employed people, women or men, in my profession here and there hasn't been in the 12 years I've been here. I was fortunate enough to work with a great group of professionals in Denver for years.

I don't have the group of varied professionals living next to me that one of the previous posters has. I live in a "poor" neighborhood here, if there is such a thing, so my neighbors are not architects, doctors, engineers or such. They are just plain working class folk. I wonder where that poster lives to have such a varied group of neighbors. I bet those people moved here AFTER they were established in their occupation and had made money to move here with.

It is a fact that it is homogenous here and yes, it is vanilla. There are a few other ethnic groups here but they are in very small numbers and I rarely see them except in the grocery store or retail establishments working. The stats are that it is 90% Caucasian and 9% Hispanic so there is 1% of any other ethnicity here (West African, Chinese, Nepali, etc).

Since I have known so many women here who have moved on I guess you can say all of them are bitter too since they left due to lack of JOBS not because they didn't enjoy the mountain lifestyle, skiing or other things that are offered here. They are all in the 40 to 55 age group and single or divorced if that tells you anything. In fact, one of my friends who has lived here for the past 25 years has NEVER been able to find a job here and has left the County to do contract work for months at a time and then returned. She is currently in the process of moving out of here as well.

If you move here when you are young then it's possible to establish yourself and move up the ranks. If you move here when you are 40 plus with a lot of debt and no opportunity to make a decent living then it isn't an option unless you have some fantastic connections. You are smart that you are already established with BOEC as that will help you immensely in your new life. As far as a teaching job I don't know if it will be easy or not. I had a friend who was in her late 20's with a master's and she tried for 2 years to get a teaching job here without success so she was a hostess at a local restaurant. She moved to Boulder and was offered a position the next day. Supply and demand I guess.

I like culture, so for the poster who doesn't that's great for you. I did not move here for culture or because it was the utopia that many of you move here for. I moved here because I got married and my husband was already established here and living here. I think that changes the scenario a bit. I have lived in mountain communities in the past on the East coast and they are similar yet different than here. No matter which one, it's just not for me. I am a City girl who likes city things who would prefer to be a visiting tourist or summer resident rather than a full-time occupant. Fortunately I have great friends both up here and in Denver and lots of other interests to occupy my time.

For those of you who love living in the mountain communities, Bravo. Without that love for these areas and the lifestyle it provides there would be no communities for you to live in or for others to visit. Now, let's get on with our lives.

Again, to the poster from Pennsylvania I wish you much success and happiness with your move. It sounds like the perfect place for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top