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Old 12-15-2009, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,826,387 times
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I think he ( josseppie ) wants Tim Kaines job!

 
Old 12-15-2009, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,173 posts, read 20,941,769 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenkonami View Post
Frankly I did think cap and trade solves anything. It just moves the problem elsewhere.

And I'm a big proponent of clean energy...particularly wind and solar, but I haven't yet figured out how it's going to save Colorado's economy. Though I think it's an excellent idea for the environment, I don't see how new sources of money and production are introduced with it except within the somewhat limited industry of energy, and then it still has to fight more traditional energy income sources.

If Colorado has a plan I'd love to read it, though. We really are at the point where some good is better than no action at all.
Just look at what its doing to Pueblo. We got the worlds largest wind tower plant and that opened up a industrial park that is the only one of its kind in southern Colorado and Pueblo is hoping to attract more companies like Vesta's, a few are looking at Pueblo now. Then you have a proposed solar plant east of town that will be massive and a 21,000 acer new energy park east of town. This is only one example I know other cities have examples of their own.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 10:04 AM
 
20,819 posts, read 39,016,065 times
Reputation: 19015
Here's some news highlighting several recent small successes in bringing new jobs to COLO. Key thing I note is that it seems to be tax incentives offered by the state that is making this happen.

Brief excerpts:

- A Nevada aerospace company (Sierra Nevada) is promising 200 additional jobs for its Colorado operations, taking advantage of a new state tax law designed to encourage business expansion.

- The announcement brings to a half dozen the number of firms that have added hundreds of jobs or relocated here in recent months partly because of tax incentives for the jobs they bring.

- Colorado is leading the way toward a strong and sustainable recovery because of our focus on innovation, manufacturing and future-oriented industries like aerospace," Gov. Bill Ritter said in a press release....

- Sierra Nevada stands to benefit from a law Ritter signed in May the Job Growth Incentive Fund that provides a credit on payroll taxes for each new job created. The state tax credit is applied annually and is equivalent to 3.8% of the employee's salary.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,173 posts, read 20,941,769 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Here's some news highlighting several recent small successes in bringing new jobs to COLO. Key thing I note is that it seems to be tax incentives offered by the state that is making this happen.

Brief excerpts:

- A Nevada aerospace company (Sierra Nevada) is promising 200 additional jobs for its Colorado operations, taking advantage of a new state tax law designed to encourage business expansion.

- The announcement brings to a half dozen the number of firms that have added hundreds of jobs or relocated here in recent months partly because of tax incentives for the jobs they bring.

- Colorado is leading the way toward a strong and sustainable recovery because of our focus on innovation, manufacturing and future-oriented industries like aerospace," Gov. Bill Ritter said in a press release....

- Sierra Nevada stands to benefit from a law Ritter signed in May the Job Growth Incentive Fund that provides a credit on payroll taxes for each new job created. The state tax credit is applied annually and is equivalent to 3.8% of the employee's salary.
That is great news but I thought you were against tax incentives? Let the private companies do it?
 
Old 12-15-2009, 10:26 AM
 
20,819 posts, read 39,016,065 times
Reputation: 19015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
That is great news but I thought you were against tax incentives? Let the private companies do it?
I'm ambivalent about such gimmicks. It may well suck jobs out of other states, many of whom are trying to suck jobs out of our state and into theirs. In the end we hurt COLO tax receipts. If all we do is move a finite set of jobs from place to place, then we really haven't created MORE jobs for our nation, we simply pluck a handful of jobs from there and plop them onto another spot on the map, in this case here.

It's similar to dreams of a publicly funded convention center (CC) here in COLO SPGS. We can use taxpayer funds to build one, but it burdens our taxpayers, takes convention business away from publicly funded CCs in other states and thus hurts taxpayers in those states. If commercially viable convention requirements exist in COLO SPGS, then private industry would've built a CC here by now. I'm not a fan of "beggar thy neighbor" which is a lot of what's going on here.

In this case, private industry is coming here, but only because of incentives. Though true that COLO isn't building a place for Sierra Nevada to occupy, we are giving away COLO tax money to get them in here, hoping that the spinoff spending will help us get more out of it than we give. Industries and business play this game of pitting one state or city against a field of other states and cities to see who'll give them the most money to move there.

Given that many other states are offering incentives too, then overall it's good for COLO to win a few battles in this game of bribing firms to locate here. These are good jobs, not minimum/low-wage CC jobs of setting up and tearing down banquet tables or cleaning up the messes left behind.

These jobs will help COLO exit the recession a bit sooner, or at least help reduce the negative impacts.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,734,052 times
Reputation: 1696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Just look at what its doing to Pueblo. We got the worlds largest wind tower plant and that opened up a industrial park that is the only one of its kind in southern Colorado and Pueblo is hoping to attract more companies like Vesta's, a few are looking at Pueblo now. Then you have a proposed solar plant east of town that will be massive and a 21,000 acer new energy park east of town. This is only one example I know other cities have examples of their own.
And Vesta's is already shutting down one of their brand new factories (and laying off all 500 workers therein) as the giddy illusion of strong demand for wind power wears off.

Same goes for PV solar...right now the technology is not cost effective, and when subsidies evaporate, so does demand.

And from a look at the bond markets and foreign flow of funds reports the last few weeks, the government's ability to spend like a drunken tourist on hooker row isn't long for this world. How much tax revenue does an abandoned energy park produce (or consume)??

Me thinks it's a bit early to declare victory here. It may be green and oh so trendy, but it's not profitable in its own right, and when the free money from .gov dries up, it's fall from grace could be quite swift.
 
Old 12-15-2009, 11:59 AM
 
20,819 posts, read 39,016,065 times
Reputation: 19015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
And Vesta's is already shutting down one of their brand new factories (and laying off all 500 workers therein) as the giddy illusion of strong demand for wind power wears off.

Same goes for PV solar...right now the technology is not cost effective, and when subsidies evaporate, so does demand.

And from a look at the bond markets and foreign flow of funds reports the last few weeks, the government's ability to spend like a drunken tourist on hooker row isn't long for this world. How much tax revenue does an abandoned energy park produce (or consume)??

Me thinks it's a bit early to declare victory here. It may be green and oh so trendy, but it's not profitable in its own right, and when the free money from .gov dries up, it's fall from grace could be quite swift.
Agreed, it's too early to declare victory; it will take several to many years. True that when .gov money dries up, so does a lot of things, but I fervently wish .gov money for the ethanol subsidy would go away, my rant on that loser needs no repeating here.

Long term, longer than I have at my age, solar and wind are the cat's meow and we need to push it along with some subsidies. I want that technology and those jobs here. I want battery powered cars that are charged by renewable electric sources (wind / solar) so we can get off of OPEC's oil nipple asap, and THAT will be a fine day indeed.

To a good extent, WE can work OUR way out of this recession, and the new technologies could be a huge boost to do that.
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,173 posts, read 20,941,769 times
Reputation: 4258
Exclamation Vestas Towers sticks with plan

It was not as bad as first reported. This is from the Chieftain. I am still waiting for the official unemployment numbers for Colorado in November that will tell us how things are doing locally.

Vestas' revised timeline for ramping up its Pueblo tower plant remains unchanged by a plan for short-term idling of its existing blade plant in Windsor, a Vestas executive said Tuesday.

The link: http://www.chieftain.com/articles/2009/12/09/business/local/doc4b1f30ce41b4c812342576.txt

and this from the Denver post:

Employees at the Vestas wind-turbine plant in Windsor will continue to report to work despite reports earlier this week of furloughs at the facility.

The link: http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_13964331#ixzz0ZJg9cn3k

So yes its a little early to declare complete victory, however, we are clearly on the right path.

Last edited by Josseppie; 12-15-2009 at 01:01 PM..
 
Old 12-16-2009, 02:57 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,513,473 times
Reputation: 7597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post

Long term, longer than I have at my age, solar and wind are the cat's meow and we need to push it along with some subsidies. I want that technology and those jobs here. I want battery powered cars that are charged by renewable electric sources (wind / solar) so we can get off of OPEC's oil nipple asap, and THAT will be a fine day indeed.
And a day that will never come, at least in any of our lifetimes here.

I've done some work on electrics for manufacturers and it's a dead end road. I've posted my experiences and thoughts in some threads somewhere in the automotive section.

Electric cars have been around since 1900 and they still haven't really progressed and they never will anytime soon.

Especially in cold weather climes like Colorado, electric cars don't work at all.

What makes more sense is biodiesel and natural gas. CNG is sold at most pumps in Australia and it is common down there. We have limitless natural gas here in the states(150 years worth under my house, maybe more) and it's easy to convert cars to run on it and now the technology can run seamlessly with regular petrol.

Ethanol has been twisted into some evil substance but if make from the right sources(NOT CORN) it is worthwhile. About 90% of Brazil's cars run on it.

There are a lot of other options out there to be petroleum independent.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,826,387 times
Reputation: 9316
wanneroo wrote:
There are a lot of other options out there to be petroleum independent.
Your comment reminds me of the movie


Back To The Future,

where Doc Brown ( Christopher Lloyd ) stuffs the fuel tank of his time machine with common garbage, backs out of the driveway and says to Marty ( Michale J Fox ), Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads.
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