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Old 05-06-2010, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,734,052 times
Reputation: 1696

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
We may actually see some temporary improvement in the economy--but here is how it is being accomplished: Some trillions of dollars of new borrowed money being injected into the economy. Think of those borrowed dollars this way--they are the dreams, aspirations, possibilities, and potentials being expropriated from future generations--some not yet born--and being p***ed into the wind en masse in one big spending orgy today. Yes, all that "funny money" may temporarily stimulate things, but then what? Then the bill has to be paid--in reverse--by expropriating wealth--either by inflation or taxation--from all those people following us. I find no joy, comfort, morality, or decency in that prospect--yet people like Josseppie celebrate it like the Second Coming. If a recovery in Colorado's economy is predicated on prostituting ourselves and future generations for one more big good-time economic orgy, I want no part of it. I'm no angel, but I see no reason to go jump in bed with devil, just for the promise of one short-term good time. I'm just not that selfish. Being "out of the recession" means nothing positive to me when it is predicated on a total economic lie foisted upon the American people by corrupt people intent only on promoting their own selfish interests or political survival.
If there's any better demonstration of the presence of "funny money" by the truckload than a 1,000 point drop in the Dow Jones in a half an hour like what happened this afternoon, I can't think of what it would be. The weasels at Goldman Suchs, Deutschebank, JP Organ, and the rest of the pigmen are lined up at the exits like paratroopers waiting for the green light. They're ready to get out at a moment's notice and leave Mom and Pop to sort out the wreckage in their IRAs and 401Ks.

The fundamentals...here in Colorado and all across the looted plains--still stink as bad as in Aug 2008, if not worse. The banks, in collusion with the Fed, are still playing hide the rotten sausage with mountains of bad debt that will never, ever be repaid. We're seeing in Greece what happens when the smoke and mirrors no longer can hide the ugly truth, and the kind of unhappiness it brings causes riots and perhaps even wars.

Discussions of growth in our local economies miss the point entirely...we should be shifting focus onto how we preserve some semblance of a functioning local economy in a much leaner world out into the future. That's hard to do when we're not producing anything. Trading stocks, bonds, houses, or baseball cards back and forth to some next greater fool will not sustain a liveable environment.

"Development" is just another term for growth. In fact the definition of recession's end is a return to growth. Why is development of a place like Pueblo Springs a good thing when we can't sustain what we already have? Why do we think that more building will be a good thing when we can't afford and are defaulting as a society on the things we've already built and can't sustain?

Maybe the title of this thread should instead be "Colorado coming out of remission?"


Unconstrained growth is the ideology of the cancer cell

 
Old 05-06-2010, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,173 posts, read 20,941,769 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
If there's any better demonstration of the presence of "funny money" by the truckload than a 1,000 point drop in the Dow Jones in a half an hour like what happened this afternoon, I can't think of what it would be. The weasels at Goldman Suchs, Deutschebank, JP Organ, and the rest of the pigmen are lined up at the exits like paratroopers waiting for the green light. They're ready to get out at a moment's notice and leave Mom and Pop to sort out the wreckage in their IRAs and 401Ks.

The fundamentals...here in Colorado and all across the looted plains--still stink as bad as in Aug 2008, if not worse. The banks, in collusion with the Fed, are still playing hide the rotten sausage with mountains of bad debt that will never, ever be repaid. We're seeing in Greece what happens when the smoke and mirrors no longer can hide the ugly truth, and the kind of unhappiness it brings causes riots and perhaps even wars.

Discussions of growth in our local economies miss the point entirely...we should be shifting focus onto how we preserve some semblance of a functioning local economy in a much leaner world out into the future. That's hard to do when we're not producing anything. Trading stocks, bonds, houses, or baseball cards back and forth to some next greater fool will not sustain a liveable environment.

"Development" is just another term for growth. In fact the definition of recession's end is a return to growth. Why is development of a place like Pueblo Springs a good thing when we can't sustain what we already have? Why do we think that more building will be a good thing when we can't afford and are defaulting as a society on the things we've already built and can't sustain?

Maybe the title of this thread should instead be "Colorado coming out of remission?"


Unconstrained growth is the ideology of the cancer cell
The near 1,000 point drop was caused by a trader hitting the wrong key. That is not "funny money" but a accident that while unfortunate can happen. Look at this:

According to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble , a component in the Dow.

The link: http://www.cnbc.com/id/36999483

As I have proved by definition Colorado is out of the recession and into the recovery. Now this will be a long and sometimes hard recovery but the "fundamentals" are better then they were a year ago and continuing to get better all the time. I suspect the GDP will keep going up the rest of the year as well and as things get better larger developments, like Pueblo Springs, will get started and that will cause even more growth.

Why is devloping Pueblo Springs a good idea? That is because Pueblo lacks a good tech center, that Denver and Colorado Springs has, which will provide jobs for people who want to move here. I can't remember how many times I have seen someone ask about jobs in Pueblo and was told that its easier to find them in Colorado Springs or Denver. This should level the playing field so when people ask about jobs I can give them some ideas for Pueblo as well as Colorado Springs and Denver.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 08:28 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 4,932,595 times
Reputation: 6677
Fort Collins schools to lay off teachers to meet budget cuts - KDVR (http://www.kdvr.com/news/sns-ap-co--schoollayoffs,0,4801472.story - broken link)
 
Old 05-06-2010, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,734,052 times
Reputation: 1696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
The near 1,000 point drop was caused by a trader hitting the wrong key. That is not "funny money" but a accident that while unfortunate can happen. Look at this:

According to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble , a component in the Dow.
Absolutely not true. But you go right ahead and believe that.

Repeat after me: "Baaaaaaaaah Baaaaaaaaaaaah"
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,173 posts, read 20,941,769 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Absolutely not true. But you go right ahead and believe that.
Do you have any sources you can site that back up this statement?
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:26 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,760,636 times
Reputation: 9130
Only the horribly misguided can possibly think that the "fundamentals" of this economy are improving. Everything that was wrong 18 months ago is STILL wrong--and getting worse.

We are on an economic Titanic. We were told the ship could never sink, and some people still believe it, despite the fact that we've hit the iceberg, the lower decks are quickly flooding, and there's nothing that can really be done to keep the ship from sinking. The Captain has ordered the crew to fill as many of the passengers as possible with as much food and liquor that can be found, so those feckless passengers may not notice the ship listing and that there are nowhere near enough lifeboats for everybody. He knows the ship is going down and is quietly arranging for his chosen friends to be the ones that get in the lifeboats. The band is still playing, and people are still partying on the upper decks, but there is a growing cacophony of screams and moans from down below that indicates just how bad things are. Pretty soon no one will be able to ignore those for any longer--they'll drown out the band, and then the panic will really ensue. And the people who wouldn't see what was coming, who refused to believe those that told them that the great ship was going to sink, and who couldn't be bothered with making survival plans are going to find that ocean very cold and very deadly. It will be interesting to see who is still posting on this forum--if the forum itself still exists--a year or two from now. My prediction is that the "everything is getting better" bunch will be economically drowned and down at the bottom of that proverbial ocean by then.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:43 PM
 
20,820 posts, read 39,016,065 times
Reputation: 19015
FYI: The SEC and CFTC are now investigating "unusual trades" that seemed to start today's panicky drop in stocks, which quickly reversed itself. I too sat and watched it go from -250 to -998 and then bob back up to -348, recovering two thirds of the decline. As one article said, "the machines are in charge" and once unleashed they went nuts. Time will tell what happened.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,173 posts, read 20,941,769 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Only the horribly misguided can possibly think that the "fundamentals" of this economy are improving. Everything that was wrong 18 months ago is STILL wrong--and getting worse.

We are on an economic Titanic. We were told the ship could never sink, and some people still believe it, despite the fact that we've hit the iceberg, the lower decks are quickly flooding, and there's nothing that can really be done to keep the ship from sinking. The Captain has ordered the crew to fill as many of the passengers as possible with as much food and liquor that can be found, so those feckless passengers may not notice the ship listing and that there are nowhere near enough lifeboats for everybody. He knows the ship is going down and is quietly arranging for his chosen friends to be the ones that get in the lifeboats. The band is still playing, and people are still partying on the upper decks, but there is a growing cacophony of screams and moans from down below that indicates just how bad things are. Pretty soon no one will be able to ignore those for any longer--they'll drown out the band, and then the panic will really ensue. And the people who wouldn't see what was coming, who refused to believe those that told them that the great ship was going to sink, and who couldn't be bothered with making survival plans are going to find that ocean very cold and very deadly. It will be interesting to see who is still posting on this forum--if the forum itself still exists--a year or two from now. My prediction is that the "everything is getting better" bunch will be economically drowned and down at the bottom of that proverbial ocean by then.
You predict that the national and Colorado economy will get worse while people like Warren Buffet say it is improving. I have to go with Warren Buffet on this one. Here is the article from the NY Times:

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) -- Billionaire Warren Buffett says the economy is finally starting to show signs of significant improvement.

The link: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010....html?_r=1&dbk
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,734,052 times
Reputation: 1696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Do you have any sources you can site that back up this statement?
There are lots of sites you can go to for a cite of the second-by-second moves, but things were clearly headed south before PNG showed up on the board doing its U-boat impersonation.

Inquiring minds want to know how all the computer trading programs were all cued together to act when the PNG trades hadn't yet shown up on the ticker. Some call it high-freq trading...I call it front-running and insider trading. Bottom line...the retail and buy-n-hold investor won't know these guys have rigged the casino, robbed them and fled the scene of the crime until they get home from work and see their IRA's epitaph flashing across the screen on Loservision....errrrr....I mean CNBC.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:50 PM
 
20,820 posts, read 39,016,065 times
Reputation: 19015
The details of this will be interesting once made public. I noted when the DJIA went below 10,000 that it only lasted for a moment, and then it seemed the gates of buying hell broke loose and stocks quickly bid back up to 10,500. I'm sure they had their machines queued to start buying if the Dow broke down below 10K and the computerized buying frenzy kicked in. I'd bet too that they can set these trigger points very quickly, thus as the decline started they quickly set the trigger point to put money into play. Skeptic that I am, I do wonder if the erroneous PNG sell was INTENTIONAL to trigger a panic, drop the market, then trigger buying at a base point like 10K. Who knows? (The Shadow Do!).
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