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Old 05-14-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,834,005 times
Reputation: 9316

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Bob from down south wrote:
Consumption using borrowed money is EVIL
I don't think it's EVIL, but it is certainly not bettering oneself in ANY way, shape, or form! Deluding onself perhaps, or being hoodwinked by the almighty bankers is the gist of it.

 
Old 05-14-2010, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,173 posts, read 20,950,703 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
"Onward, fellow lemmings!" he cried. "To the Sea!!!"

Millions of American debt slaves thought they could "afford" lavish european vacations, boats, expensive vehicles, etc by going to the HELOC home ATM and placing their home at risk by borrowing against it for those things.

And lots of those people are losing, or in danger of losing, those same houses today. A home equity line of credit is not, as the thieving bankers would have you believe, "tapping into the equity in your house," as if it were some sort of bank account. No, it's borrowing more money from those bankers...more often than not for nonessentials...and using one's house as the collateral.

There actually is something very wrong with that, and one needn't look far at all to see the damage it causes. That damage is not the stuff economic recovery is made of. This is just the illusion of wealth, and when that illusion is stripped away, as it eventually must be, it leaves a trail of wreckage in its wake. I, for one, think we've had enough of that insanity already 'round these parts.


Consumption using borrowed money is EVIL
This is false. As with anything it depends on how much a person borrows as some borrowing is not only ok but good for the Colorado economy. For example I am borrowing a little money using my house as collateral to remodel it. I already have it planned out how I will pay it back in my budget but in the mean time it helps put more Coloradoans back to work. And I am just one example if you look at all the companies and other people that will be able to borrow that along with the other reasons I have states will help Colorado in the recovery.
 
Old 05-14-2010, 02:57 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 4,934,842 times
Reputation: 6677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
This is false. As with anything it depends on how much a person borrows as some borrowing is not only ok but good for the Colorado economy. For example I am borrowing a little money using my house as collateral to remodel it. I already have it planned out how I will pay it back in my budget but in the mean time it helps put more Coloradoans back to work. And I am just one example if you look at all the companies and other people that will be able to borrow that along with the other reasons I have states will help Colorado in the recovery.
Why can't you save up and remodel your home without borrowing against it? That would provide local jobs as well, and would allow you to keep ALL of your money in the local economy rather than shipping it off to the Wall Street banks as interest.

Sorry Josse, but banks allowing people to sell themselves into servitude isn't a sign of a healthy recovery. From a macro standpoint, the whole world is sick with debt that can't possibly be repaid, and adding more debt only makes it worse. From a micro standpoint, how can you possibly say that people are "bettering themselves" by selling themselves into debt slavery for depreciating assets?
 
Old 05-14-2010, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,173 posts, read 20,950,703 times
Reputation: 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
Why can't you save up and remodel your home without borrowing against it? That would provide local jobs as well, and would allow you to keep ALL of your money in the local economy rather than shipping it off to the Wall Street banks as interest.

Sorry Josse, but banks allowing people to sell themselves into servitude isn't a sign of a healthy recovery. From a macro standpoint, the whole world is sick with debt that can't possibly be repaid, and adding more debt only makes it worse. From a micro standpoint, how can you possibly say that people are "bettering themselves" by selling themselves into debt slavery for depreciating assets?
I could but I don't want to wait the year or two it would take to save the money to remodel my house just to save a few dollars. That being said I, also, don't want to over extend my self so but have the loaned just large enough to help me with my project but not to large so I can't pay it back fast. That is a personal choice I make and it does not make me any better or worse then a person who chooses to save before they start a remodel project.

You are, also, right that both ways would provide local jobs however if you look back at history economies did not really start to grow till there was a banking system that lent money to people and companies allowing them to grow faster and pay it back with the extra profit they made. That happens in Colorado all the time and why once the banks loosen up and lend more money you will see large developments, like Pueblo Springs, start creating thousands of jobs.
 
Old 05-14-2010, 03:31 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,521,507 times
Reputation: 7597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
"Onward, fellow lemmings!" he cried. "To the Sea!!!"

Millions of American debt slaves thought they could "afford" lavish european vacations, boats, expensive vehicles, etc by going to the HELOC home ATM and placing their home at risk by borrowing against it for those things.

And lots of those people are losing, or in danger of losing, those same houses today. A home equity line of credit is not, as the thieving bankers would have you believe, "tapping into the equity in your house," as if it were some sort of bank account. No, it's borrowing more money from those bankers...more often than not for nonessentials...and using one's house as the collateral.

There actually is something very wrong with that, and one needn't look far at all to see the damage it causes. That damage is not the stuff economic recovery is made of. This is just the illusion of wealth, and when that illusion is stripped away, as it eventually must be, it leaves a trail of wreckage in its wake. I, for one, think we've had enough of that insanity already 'round these parts.


Consumption using borrowed money is EVIL
Just about 100% spot on.

To me equity is something that is only realized when a sale is finalized. The methodology used to give home equity loans I think is phony.

Debt does not equal income.

Credit I think will always exist, but as a society I think we have let our wants exceed what we can afford to our long term detriment.
 
Old 05-14-2010, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,173 posts, read 20,950,703 times
Reputation: 4258
I saw this from the National Journal and while we still have a long recovery ahead the Colorado economy is going in the right direction. This is for the national numbers but I would suspect the trend is the same for Colorado. Here is the article:

If the economy produces jobs over the next eight months at the same pace as it did over the past four months, the nation will have created more jobs in 2010 alone than it did over the entire eight years of George W. Bush's presidency.

The link: National Journal Magazine - Repairing The Job Machine
 
Old 05-14-2010, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,735,461 times
Reputation: 1696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
This is false. As with anything it depends on how much a person borrows as some borrowing is not only ok but good for the Colorado economy. For example I am borrowing a little money using my house as collateral to remodel it. I already have it planned out how I will pay it back in my budget but in the mean time it helps put more Coloradoans back to work. And I am just one example if you look at all the companies and other people that will be able to borrow that along with the other reasons I have states will help Colorado in the recovery.
If you have to borrow money to make improvements to a house, you're not doing things smart. The banks would have us all believe that it's a good thing to go into debt for anything we might want. It's not a good idea at all to jump on that train to Hell.

Financing one's "wants" with borrowed money is a slippery slope that has claimed far too many, and the bill for much of that madness is being presented to the taxpayers. In an ideal world there would be a bunch of dead bankers as a result...too bad Colorado hasn't yet returned to its heritage of hanging the horse thieves. The fact that it may be becoming easier to compromise one's home to facilitate wanton consumer spending again is troubling, and it should be stopped.

Personal debt and recovery are not synonymous. Quite the opposite, in fact.


The West wasn't won
With a Capital One
Whose fingers are in YOUR wallet?
 
Old 05-14-2010, 07:54 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,774,765 times
Reputation: 9132
I'm not even going to try to explain why going into debt to finance depreciating crap is a foul idea. Suffice to say this: It's bad enough when we have the government, politicians, lenders, real estate hacks, and mortgage brokers sending us to the economic gallows, but it's even worse when the victims go gleefully--hopping, skipping and jumping as fast as they can to get there.
 
Old 05-14-2010, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,735,461 times
Reputation: 1696
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I'm not even going to try to explain why going into debt to finance depreciating crap is a foul idea. Suffice to say this: It's bad enough when we have the government, politicians, lenders, real estate hacks, and mortgage brokers sending us to the economic gallows, but it's even worse when the victims go gleefully--hopping, skipping and jumping as fast as they can to get there.
OTOH, some might say that it proves yet again that Charles Darwin was a pretty smart guy...
 
Old 05-15-2010, 10:18 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,738,951 times
Reputation: 4502
Quote:
Originally Posted by markfromCA View Post
The news today's says that Colorado is going to be one of the first states to pull out of the recession. The report paints a good picture for Colorado And all of it's industries. What do you actually living there think?
I think things are stable. It may be hard for those already out of work to find new jobs, but I think the hemorrhaging has stopped. In my spouse's industry (IT), there are some new jobs, but there's also a lot of musical chairs going on with companies actively poaching from each other. As I stated earlier, he and his coworkers saw saw generous raises and bonuses this year. Additionally, sales exceeded expectations, there are several new and lucrative contracts, and the stock price is up. Everybody is fully engaged and the overall goal is to keep the ball rolling. Travel restrictions have eased, and on-site training has picked up significantly.

In the neighborhood, landscaping companies and painters are doing a brisk business this spring. Our handyman is backed up for two months. I'm not aware of any major renovations, but there's quite a bit of maintenance and repair going on. Thirty-six houses are currently for sale, and there are no pending foreclosures, nor have there been for at least a year. Two small houses up the street from me sold in less than three weeks. I'm not sure whether or not they went at asking, because the info has yet to post at the county website. Restaurants are relatively full, but long waits are unusual. A few nice new sedans are tooling around, but nothing truly extravagant. People generally seem less stressed than they did this time last year.

At the risk of repeating myself, I'm CAUTIOUSLY optimistic about Denver's future; however, I don't recommend that anybody drop everything and move here thinking that it will be easy. We still have a long way to go.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 05-15-2010 at 11:47 AM..
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