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Old 12-11-2009, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,169,284 times
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Oh but of course. It's all doom and gloom and all Obama's fault

 
Old 12-11-2009, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,170 posts, read 20,920,900 times
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By definition we will be out of the recession when the GDP has gone up in 3 consecutive quarters. That is the same for Colorado as it is for the United States.
 
Old 12-11-2009, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,731,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
By definition we will be out of the recession when the GDP has gone up in 3 consecutive quarters. That is the same for Colorado as it is for the United States.
I think we'd be better served by not focusing on "definitions" proffered by the lemmings and think about where we are, and what we're doing.

If you can't make your monthly payments on what you take home, then sign up for a credit card and take $5,000 in cash advances at 29.99% interest, is it reasonable to tell the wifey that things are looking up...we've "recovered" and are paying our bills?

That's where we are as a nation right now. $12 trillion in national debt, with nearly $2 Tn MORE in the works for next year alone is beyond staggering, and virtually none of the lemmings in DC are talking at all about how paying that back (or defaulting and not paying it back) is going to affect our lives and our economy in the years ahead. And affect them, it will. Then add that to the sounds of creaking and snapping in the Colorado state budget, and your county's budget, and your city's budget.

One would be well advised to listen to ex-Fed chairman Paul Volcker's recent (and not so recent) warnings. Truth be told, none of the problems that caused this disaster have been dealt with...we have cured the drunk of his DTs with a case of MD 20/20.

We're on a credit crack high, and though we know deep down that the dealer isn't going to give us free rock candy forever and ever more, it doesn't matter. We're high now. To the devil with tomorrow.

Last edited by Bob from down south; 12-11-2009 at 11:04 PM..
 
Old 12-11-2009, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,731,378 times
Reputation: 1696
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Oh but of course. It's all doom and gloom and all Obama's fault
He's been in office nearly a year, so you can't say that nothing is on him now. He's continued with bailout mania to the thieving bankers, sent even more troops to a never-ending war in Afghastlystan--something that the Russians couldn't win from right next door, and is leading the charge to bury us in debt with virtually no regard for the burden $trillions in deficits year after year will cause. CNN says that at the rate his gang is spending it, by 2019 over 92% of the budget will be consumed by Medicare, Social Security, and interest on the debt alone.

The reality is that he's just another politician, bought and paid for by the same monied interests that owned his predecessors.

As Charles Krauthammer has astutely observed, watch not what the man says...watch what he does. They are vastly different. What he does is more of the same, and it's killing us.
 
Old 12-12-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,813,553 times
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Bob rom down south wrote:
The reality is that he's just another politician, bought and paid for by the same monied interests that owned his predecessors.
I think Obama is acutely aware of what happened to Kennedy when he crossed the line drawn in the sand by his monied interests bosses. What can Obama or even Ron Paul really do unless they are willing to pay the ultimate price? Can we honestly expect any president to have that type of willingness? I believe he has little choice but to toe the line dictated by his big money bosses.
 
Old 12-12-2009, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,804 posts, read 102,103,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
I think that we will find that by definition the Colorado economy officially came out of the recession during the 4th quarter 2009.
We will only know that in hindsight. I hope you are right.
 
Old 12-12-2009, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,731,378 times
Reputation: 1696
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard
I think Obama is acutely aware of what happened to Kennedy when he crossed the line drawn in the sand by his monied interests bosses. What can Obama or even Ron Paul really do unless they are willing to pay the ultimate price? Can we honestly expect any president to have that type of willingness? I believe he has little choice but to toe the line dictated by his big money bosses.
Obama is sending a lot of our kids into places like Kabul to kick down doors looking for Al Qaeda creepnoids. They don't have $2 Billion worth of Secret Service protection surrounding them when they go into harm's way at the president's orders. When personal safety is put into that perspective, I believe that he most certainly does have a choice, and at far less of a risk than that taken by those he sends into real danger every day of every week.

I wouldn't paint Ron Paul with the same brush...he's clearly on the attack against those monied interests and has been for some time.

But back to the topic at hand...it should be obvious even to the non-economist that you can't borrow your way out of debt any more than you can drink yourself sober. This economic maelstrom is rooted in excessive levels of debt, and so far, over two years into it, the government has done nothing but try to avoid recognizing and dealing with the real problem.

We're facing a doubling or even tripling of federal taxes to pay down the mountain of debt we've accrued. State and local taxes would have to rise dramatically to maintain the same levels of service that we grew accustomed to while binging on the illusion of wealth at the height of our debt-fueled euphoria. Add that to millions who have no safety margins in their budgets, and that does not spell "recovery," here in Colorado, and all across the looted plains.
 
Old 12-12-2009, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,627 posts, read 3,704,527 times
Reputation: 1778
You *can* borrow your way out of debt if you are using that credit to advance some kind of investment that will pay dividends down the line that exceed the sum of your debt and interest payments. It's the basic premise of business borrowing. You might take out a line of credit to give you an advance on inventory you are expecting (hopefully with good reason, like an increase in demand) to sell beyond your normal stock. You might require certain tools that allow you better service your clients, increasing your productivity and potentially your bottom line. So long as you are accurately projecting more income over time than debits, you can surmount your debt and effectively "borrow your way out of debt."

This is fundamentally what some economists are advising. If we can increase productivity and incomes then we will increase total tax revenue without necessarily raising taxes. This affects systems across the board, producing a flow of cash that can be used to start paying down the debt.

The problem is a short sightedness on the part of the banks and politicians. Banks are afraid to lend (though they have ample incentive to do so) because it is more lucrative for them to engage in high finance at the moment than taking risks with longer term productivity through small business and corporate lending. Politicians are unwilling to support public solutions to assist restarting the economy ("recession" definitions aside) because they fear getting bogged down in permanent engagement with a largely privately run economy.

For the most part, they are *right* to fear that. It is their job (admittedly not constitutionally), when private systems fail, to step in and intervene. If they would stop being politicos and agree for a moment to fix things then perhaps we could engage in an appropriate series of checks of balances where more liberal solutions could be implemented and held in check by fiscally conservative timetables and sunset clauses. Instead the vast majority of politicians (including the President, who despite poor alternatives I'm sad to say I voted for) pander to special interests and so called "moderate" solutions that are, in fact, compromises to nowhere.

Ideology has trumped common sense. Inaction led by lustrous rhetoric seems safer than trying something practical and testing the results. Frankly, it's cowardly. Sadly, it's job security.

In many ways the states, Colorado included, are just going to have to pick up the slack themselves and try to fix their own internal messes (California is DOOMED!)...in some cases by borrowing their way out of debt. But they should only do so if they have a relatively solid plan to pay off that debt, just as any family should. In places like Denver and Pueblo, investments in infrastructure seem to be keeping those economies buoyant. Infrastructure is an example of something that can pay off down the line. The key is to keep money moving through the system and not tied up in corporate monopolies (cough, banks) that are unwilling to execute their own mission statements.

That's not to say Colorado is in stellar shape, but if not for at least some smart decisions so far, Colorado's economy (notoriously boom/bust) should probably be in far worse condition than it is. Diversification and investment in the state's future (through money and appropriate tax breaks) is the one thing keeping it from the dire situation it might otherwise find itself in.
 
Old 12-12-2009, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,170 posts, read 20,920,900 times
Reputation: 4252
I am really interested to see how our unemployment figures did for November. I hope they continue the trend down.
 
Old 12-12-2009, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,731,378 times
Reputation: 1696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
I am really interested to see how our unemployment figures did for November. I hope they continue the trend down.
Well, there's this green shoot from the Dept of Labor:
"States reported 4,178,780 persons claiming EUC (Emergency Unemployment Compensation) benefits for the week ending Nov. 21, an increase of 327,729 from the prior week. There were 729,256 claimants in the comparable week in 2008. EUC weekly claims include first, second, and third tier activity."

That's only a 570% Y-O-Y increase. Things must be getting better... (??)
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