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Old 01-15-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
336 posts, read 625,175 times
Reputation: 148

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Quote:
Originally Posted by treedonkey View Post
Punishment accepted. I'll be ready for a quiz on Monday. Oh wait make that Tuesday, I'm going boarding on Monday...
(I couldn't figure out why someone she was gushing about Livermore CA on the CO forum either... which is why I snickered)
Guess if I am still able to *gush* at my age...I am lucky... haha
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,259,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treedonkey View Post
(I couldn't figure out why someone she was gushing about Livermore CA on the CO forum either... which is why I snickered)
Well they do have that cool lab where they figure out how to make nuclear bombs and stuff.
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:45 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,023,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCVDUR View Post

1. Colorado has very low unemployment, and unemployment is going down in some areas including Boulder. Most areas of the state have remained stable in terms of unemployment since the Stock Market Crash of 9-15-08.
2. Colorado is not a right to work state.
3. Colorado has a relatively low cost of living compared to other western states.
4. There are relatively few foreclosures and virtually no housing bubble to speak of in Colorado, including Denver.
5. Colorado sales taxes are relatively low compared to other Western states.
6. Colorado Chambers of Commerces in Colorado in my experience are very customer service oriented. In my experience, this is very true in Boulder, Durango, and Alamosa.

Bottom line: it looks like the best place to relocate to right now, however, these postings are telling a different story. Hmmm....
A lot of that would be news to a lot of Coloradans.

Virtually no housing bubble? Uh no, there was plenty of overbuilding all over Colorado. Might not rank on the stupidity of some of the half built developments in the desert out in Cali or Arizona, but there was plenty of it.

Cost of living I don't think is that low, nor are the taxes.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:02 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,103,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCVDUR View Post
1. Colorado has very low unemployment, and unemployment is going down in some areas including Boulder. Most areas of the state have remained stable in terms of unemployment since the Stock Market Crash of 9-15-08.
2. Colorado is not a right to work state.
3. Colorado has a relatively low cost of living compared to other western states.
4. There are relatively few foreclosures and virtually no housing bubble to speak of in Colorado, including Denver.
5. Colorado sales taxes are relatively low compared to other Western states.
6. Colorado Chambers of Commerces in Colorado in my experience are very customer service oriented. In my experience, this is very true in Boulder, Durango, and Alamosa.

Bottom line: it looks like the best place to relocate to right now, however, these postings are telling a different story. Hmmm....


More pure statistic reading from someone who apparently knows virtually nothing about the reality behind the stats. My responses:

1. Colorado has plenty of high unemployment areas, and numerous industries that are hurting. As it usually does, Colorado's economy is lagging the rest of the US going into the recession/depression--we haven't seen the worst yet.

2. Very little of the Colorado workforce is unionized. In many cases, wages here are lower than on either coast. Incomes here are higher than many neighboring states, but so are real estate costs. Also, outside of the metro areas and the energy patch (and the latter is hurting pretty good right now), a $10 per hour job (usually with no benefits) is considered a pretty good job. The math doesn't work very well when the median home price in a lot of those same places is over $200K.

3. Compared to the "silly" states--California being the prime example--Colorado's living costs are lower, but so are incomes. Colorado has some of the highest living costs in the Rocky Mountain/Great Plains region, which would be a more accurate reference for comparison.

4. I have personally researched the statistics on Colorado's housing bubble as part of my work. There absolutely was a real estate bubble in Colorado. In some areas, it has yet to really start deflating, but all of the traditional indicators of a big price decline are present. My prediction is for that to happen this year.

5. This has to be one of the most ignorant of the statements in this post. Colorado has a relatively moderate STATE sales tax, but when one adds what is typical county, local, and special district sales taxes to the mix, the sales tax a typical shopper in Colorado pays are in the upper tier of sales taxes. Oh, also, Colorado also has one of the highest fuel taxes in the United States, and just this past July, added a significant surcharge to motor vehicle registration fees.

6. Colorado Chambers of Commerce are pretty customer-oriented. Duh! They're trying to sell people on bringing a bunch of money to their community to buy something. Pimps are nice, too, when they are trying to find "Johns" to patronize their ladies.

But, what the hell do I know? I only have researched Colorado's economy, environment, demographics and geography for a few decades now, and lived in just about every end of the state.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,977 posts, read 98,832,039 times
Reputation: 31386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
More pure statistic reading from someone who apparently knows virtually nothing about the reality behind the stats. My responses:

1. Colorado has plenty of high unemployment areas, and numerous industries that are hurting. As it usually does, Colorado's economy is lagging the rest of the US going into the recession/depression--we haven't seen the worst yet.
Tell me, jazz, where do you get your crystal balls? IIRC, you predicted gas prices would rise again to the levels of the spring of 2008, yet we're nowhere near there.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:49 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,103,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Tell me, jazz, where do you get your crystal balls? IIRC, you predicted gas prices would rise again to the levels of the spring of 2008, yet we're nowhere near there.
Well, fuel prices are higher in my area now than they were during the height of the summer driving season last year--far ahead of where they were in winter 2008. I suspect we could surpass the peaks of the 2008 this summer. As I have posted elsewhere, the fuel price I watch most closely are diesel prices--because diesel is what runs the economy. When retail diesel fuel prices get much above about $3.50/gal., really ugly things start to happen in the US freight transportation system. Diesel prices are hovering right around $3/gal. right now in rural Colorado.

We caught a break on fuel prices during 2009 only because the economy was/is in the tank. If by some stupid miracle, our insane economic policies of late manage to restart the speculative bubble machine in the US economy, the combination of increased fuel demand along with the debasing of the US currency will lead to massive fuel price inflation. Then we'll be looking at $4/gal. with real nostalgia. Even absent of that, I think the rapidly accelerating decline in Mexican oil production out of its aging and depleting oil fields--the US's major source of imported oil--is going to start seriously inflating oil costs within the next 12-18 months.

Maybe you should read the following presentation made by Matt Simmons at the ASPO 2009 International Peak Oil Conference held last October right in good ol' Denver. Simmons is considered the leading investment banker to the petroleum industry. He is also plenty familiar with this region, being a Utah native.

http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/files/ASPO%202009%20Final.pdf (broken link)

Last edited by jazzlover; 01-15-2010 at 08:58 PM..
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:55 AM
 
857 posts, read 1,347,184 times
Reputation: 186
Default Colorado Unemployment Decreasing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Tell me, jazz, where do you get your crystal balls? IIRC, you predicted gas prices would rise again to the levels of the spring of 2008, yet we're nowhere near there.
I'd like to hear another side to Jazzz's story, because there are always two sides to every story. Looking at unemployment statistics, Colorado's unemployment was 7.6% in Feb 2009, in Oct 2009 it had dropped to 6.6%! 5.1% in October 2008.

Now, of course, the total labor force went down, yet MANY southwestern and Pacific US towns experienced more than doubling of unemployment from the stock market crash of 9-15-08 to the present.

The alternatives to Colorado is to live in places with even lower unemployment: Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Great Plains States, Texas, and parts of New Mexico, yet these areas are very conservative; not "open to experience" personality states as Colorado is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Even absent of that, I think the rapidly accelerating decline in Mexican oil production out of its aging and depleting oil fields--the US's major source of imported oil--is going to start seriously inflating oil costs within the next 12-18 months.
http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/files/ASPO%202009%20Final.pdf (broken link)
The Cantarelle Oil Field in Mexico is definitely in significant decline from this presentation.

Oil analyst Charlie Maxwell has talked about that on Bob Brinker's Moneytalk.

Last edited by CCCVDUR; 01-16-2010 at 02:15 AM..
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Old 01-16-2010, 01:11 AM
 
857 posts, read 1,347,184 times
Reputation: 186
Default Colorado Economic Stats

[quote=jazzlover;12466696]More pure statistic reading from someone who apparently knows virtually nothing about the reality behind the stats. My responses:

Well, I sure hope not! I have been a political guru since childhood. I will respond below.

1. ...Colorado's economy is lagging the rest of the US going into the recession/depression--we haven't seen the worst yet...

Colorado is recovering if you look at, among other things, unemployment going down. Brookings Institute: Denver is in the Strongest 20 metros, year over year Sept '08 to Sept '09 (meaning there has been less of a change than MOST markets).

2. ...when the median home price in a lot of those same places is over $200K...

However, the medium home in places on the coasts is well over $500K in many areas.

3. Colorado has some of the highest living costs in the Rocky Mountain/Great Plains region, which would be a more accurate reference for comparison.

Very true, however nobody wants to live in Omaha, Oklahoma City, or the Ozarks.

4. In some areas, it has yet to really start deflating, but all of the traditional indicators of a big price decline are present. My prediction is for that to happen this year.

Where? Actually Denver had its bubble and prices have begun to rebound according to the city-data.com graph. Many municipalities in Colorado like Ft. Collins have been stable, w/o ever experiencing a bubble...
Denver has seen a +1.6% increase in the real house price index according to the Brookings Institution, 2008Q3 to 2009Q3...placing Denver in the second strongest tier of 20 metros nationwide...


6. Colorado Chambers of Commerce are pretty customer-oriented. Duh! They're trying to sell people on bringing a bunch of money to their community to buy something. Pimps are nice, too, when they are trying to find "Johns" to patronize their ladies.

Chambers of Commerce who I've talked with in areas with high foreclosures (Nevada, California, Arizona) are very pessimistic and negative. I did not find this when I visited Colorado.

Sounds like you are a realist, and have seen a definite decline in the economy in Colorado. However, for those of us in Arizona and the Coast, Colorado is in much better shape. If there's a better place, it's probably in the Great Plains??? Thanks for your insights and please keep us optimists in check, here!

ref: Mountain Monitor: Tracking Economic Recession and Recovery in the Intermountain West’s Metropolitan Areas - Brookings Institution

Last edited by CCCVDUR; 01-16-2010 at 02:03 AM..
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:29 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,103,855 times
Reputation: 9065
It is easy to see why Colorado may look attractive to people from California, Arizona, Nevada and other "growth/speculative/stupid" states. When one is on the sinking Titanic, even a listing, rusting, leaking tramp steamer looks like the Queen Mary. But that ol' tramp steamer (Colorado, in this case) still has great big problems of its own, and another zillion desperate passengers from other states crowding onto its decks is not going to help one bit. In fact, it could help send it to the bottom, too.
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,259,830 times
Reputation: 6815
Jazzlover - If you look at the unemployment stats (as of 11/09) the four states with the lowest rates right now are on the mid-upper plains, SD, NC, KS, and NE. What's the reason for that? Strong agriculture? Credit card operations? or?

CO is #12 and VA is #8 (lots of fed money). Surprisingly VT is #6. I can't really make head or tails out of a lot of these:

Unemployment Rates for States
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