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Old 01-24-2010, 01:18 AM
 
857 posts, read 1,351,357 times
Reputation: 186

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
Maybe he can get a sweet deal with cash
Well folks, now we've shown that the Front Range and *ALSO* residents of unknown parts of Central Colorado are unkind to newcomers on City-Data. Colorado is clearly the meanest forum on city-data, as several of us "outsiders" have observed (see below).

It's incredible that "suzco" et. al. will pick apart old posts w/ different presumably different log-in names.

I guess people have nothing better to do with their time, except those of us who are looking for specific answers.

I am not the first from the West to complain of the anti-newcomer attitude on the Colorado boards.

So, I guess I'm a west coast guy and just don't get along with Midwesterners.

This poster, "WhereGirl," also received heavy criticism from Coloradans:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/10487184-post25.html

This C-D forum is definitely a reflection of the population. I have encountered only nice and helpful folks in every other place in my process of researching a relocation spot, then surprise---two aggressively unfriendly invidividuals in the Boulder forum showed up---after some other very nice and helpful folks in Boulder. Unfortunately they also come to the Denver forum.

So I am experiencing first hand now what a lot of other people complain about Boulder on this site---it is not that Boulder doesn't have nice people, but it is just that the nasty ones there are aggressively and pointlessly trying to bother you because they have no idea who they are. There is definitely a higher percentage of the aggressively unkind individuals in Boulder than a lot of other places.

But, I think I can still enjoy Boulder---I just ignore those nasty ones and focus on the truly nice people in Boulder. There are plenty of nice people in Boulder, those nasty ones that stand out counts towards nothing.


She Continues:


What is your experiences about that town?

Perhaps I should understand this aggressive nastiness from complete strangers for no reasons whatsoever before deciding to move there. It is shocking, I have never encountered a similar thing in the U.S., and not on the forum for any other town/state on this site.

What is it that you and other people who have visited/lived there find so nasty by some of the individuals there?

Does it ever pose a threat to your physical well-being, or are they just looking for psychological prey?

Last edited by CCCVDUR; 01-24-2010 at 01:31 AM..
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:11 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,154,480 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCVDUR View Post
Well folks, now we've shown that the Front Range and *ALSO* residents of unknown parts of Central Colorado are unkind to newcomers on City-Data. Colorado is clearly the meanest forum on city-data, as several of us "outsiders" have observed (see below).

It's incredible that "suzco" et. al. will pick apart old posts w/ different presumably different log-in names.

I guess people have nothing better to do with their time, except those of us who are looking for specific answers.

I am not the first from the West to complain of the anti-newcomer attitude on the Colorado boards.

So, I guess I'm a west coast guy and just don't get along with Midwesterners.

This poster, "WhereGirl," also received heavy criticism from Coloradans:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/10487184-post25.html

This C-D forum is definitely a reflection of the population. I have encountered only nice and helpful folks in every other place in my process of researching a relocation spot, then surprise---two aggressively unfriendly invidividuals in the Boulder forum showed up---after some other very nice and helpful folks in Boulder. Unfortunately they also come to the Denver forum.

So I am experiencing first hand now what a lot of other people complain about Boulder on this site---it is not that Boulder doesn't have nice people, but it is just that the nasty ones there are aggressively and pointlessly trying to bother you because they have no idea who they are. There is definitely a higher percentage of the aggressively unkind individuals in Boulder than a lot of other places.

But, I think I can still enjoy Boulder---I just ignore those nasty ones and focus on the truly nice people in Boulder. There are plenty of nice people in Boulder, those nasty ones that stand out counts towards nothing.


She Continues:


What is your experiences about that town?

Perhaps I should understand this aggressive nastiness from complete strangers for no reasons whatsoever before deciding to move there. It is shocking, I have never encountered a similar thing in the U.S., and not on the forum for any other town/state on this site.

What is it that you and other people who have visited/lived there find so nasty by some of the individuals there?

Does it ever pose a threat to your physical well-being, or are they just looking for psychological prey?
ahem...here is the link to one of her threads: Which neighborhoods for a young single have lots of trees and tree-shaded trails?

The poster was upset because people were telling her that Denver was not a good choice for someone looking for a climate with mostly cloudy days, little rain and lots of trees and shaded trails. I find it funny that you only quoted a single post rather then the entire thread.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,483,879 times
Reputation: 9292
CCCVDUR Wrote:
I guess people have nothing better to do with their time, except those of us who are looking for specific answers
Well there you go Tom. That is one of the reasons you find the responses on this thread to frustrating. You might feel less frustrated if instead of looking for specific answers, you learn to gratefully accept the answers you are given. In reality, a few of us have bent over backward to help you out, even though you have shown not the least bit of gratitude. Not to say that anyone is responding to you hoping for, or needing your gratitude. However, an occassional, sincere THANK YOU is simply a friendly gesture.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:26 AM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,062,182 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCVDUR View Post
Well folks, now we've shown that the Front Range and *ALSO* residents of unknown parts of Central Colorado are unkind to newcomers on City-Data. Colorado is clearly the meanest forum on city-data, as several of us "outsiders" have observed (see below).

It's incredible that "suzco" et. al. will pick apart old posts w/ different presumably different log-in names.

I guess people have nothing better to do with their time, except those of us who are looking for specific answers.

I am not the first from the West to complain of the anti-newcomer attitude on the Colorado boards.

So, I guess I'm a west coast guy and just don't get along with Midwesterners.
Hey wait a minute I thought I was on your ignore list?

Quite the contrary pal. You asked for information on different things and you got various opinions and experiences back.

Instead of debating the issues you rejected those posters as invalid because they did not describe the paradise utopian land you have crafted in your brain via Money magazine articles and Brookings Institute reports. And I think it stuck in your caw, because you have been exposed as a pseudo intellectual. Someone that uses big words, long winded vague arguments and statistics inappropriately. Looks good at first but then people realize you know nothing about Colorado, seasonal employment, high country living, buying and installing solar panels, planting roof top gardens, cultivating agriculture at 8000 feet, urban planning, being a landlord or property owner, etc.

In other words, All Hat and No Cattle!

I think you'll find including with yourself, that over the 18 months here I have always been encouraging to people to move to the high country and have taken a lot of my personal time providing advice publicly and answering their private messages they send to me asking for opinions and advice.

However, I do tell it like it is. It is not all unicorns crapping rainbow colored skittles. I think it is important so people do not have false impressions about what it might be like.

And for about the 40th time, I do encourage you to get out from behind the computer and all your books and talk shows, get off your butt and move. Move to the high country, Durango, Steamboat, Salida, where ever that might be. Get one of those plentiful jobs and get to work. And when you have done something of note and value, come back and tell us about it.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:54 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,159,132 times
Reputation: 9066
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCVDUR View Post
Well folks, now we've shown that the Front Range and *ALSO* residents of unknown parts of Central Colorado are unkind to newcomers on City-Data. Colorado is clearly the meanest forum on city-data, as several of us "outsiders" have observed (see below).

It's incredible that "suzco" et. al. will pick apart old posts w/ different presumably different log-in names.

I guess people have nothing better to do with their time, except those of us who are looking for specific answers.
You are not looking for specific answers. You are looking for somebody to validate what you think that you already know. The fact the you have aggravated people to the point of flat disliking you has little to do with where they came from. You've pretty much got Equal Opportunity disliking there--you've managed to aggravate people who are Colorado natives, people from the East Coast, West Coast, Midwest and everywhere in between. If you're wondering why you're getting a chilly reception, go look in the mirror.

Now, I don't post on this forum to win a popularity contest. Some of my views are controversial, but they are not formulated without knowledge and a lot of experience. I'm considered a leader in my profession, and I've had the pleasure of having varied work and life experiences that relatively few people have gotten to enjoy. Yes, I'm older and opinionated--I'm entitled to that, I've got the battle scars from some of the experiences that lead me to my opinions.

I'm going to give you, at the risk of one of your silly "blue print special" tirades, some last advice if you are determined to move Durango or someplace like it in Colorado:

1. Get yourself training or education in a skill that is usable in a place like Durango that is beyond some entry-level flunky job skill. You will never be able to stay in a place like Durango long-term working an entry-level job--the living costs are just too high. Whatever work skill you acquire, make damned sure that you are way better than average at doing it. You will be competing against scads of people who want to live there just like you do, and they will be more than willing to step into your place (or over you) if you falter. Oh, and expect to get paid less for whatever you do, no matter how good you are or what the job is, compared to other places. Again, there are always plenty of people willing to work "at a discount" in order to live in a place like Durango.

2. Know who is "in charge"--hint: it's not you. In places like Durango, it's guys like me. Call it want you want--the "old-timers," the "good ol' boys", whatever--understand that most of the business and political leadership even in rapidly changing and growing places like Durango is still held in the hands of a few influential families (and I personally know a number of them in Durango). If you do not understand or can not work within that "network," then you probably aren't going to do much in Durango. Like or not, it's one of those places where who you know (and whether they like you or not) will dictate whether or not you get an opportunity to succeed. Which brings me to my last point:

3. Eat some "humble pie" and lose the attitude. Telling people who have lived and worked in a place for years or generations that you know more about it than they do because you read some statistics will get you NOWHERE. Be "Mr. Smart***" to one wrong person in Durango can get you blackballed to where nobody in town will hire you. If you understand Latin, they can make you "persona non grata." So, lose that 12"x12" oak chip you've got on your shoulder. If you don't there will be plenty of people in Durango (or anywhere else) more than willing to knock it off for you.

Do all that and you might have a chance to make it in a place like Durango. I say "might" because places like Durango can be iffy places even for well-qualified, well-rounded individuals to make it during the good times. Times are no longer good, and not likely to be good again for a very long time. That just makes that much more difficult. Places like Durango can be fun, just understand that the ticket for admission does not come easily, quickly, or cheaply.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:21 PM
 
857 posts, read 1,351,357 times
Reputation: 186
Default Durango Good Old Boys

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Jazzlover Wrote A Long Thoughtful Essay Pn Durango Truncated
Know who is "in charge"--hint: it's not you. In places like Durango, it's guys like me. Call it want you want--the "old-timers," the "good ol' boys", whatever--understand that most of the business and political leadership even in rapidly changing and growing places like Durango is still held in the hands of a few influential families (and I personally know a number of them in Durango). If you do not understand or can not work within that "network," then you probably aren't going to do much in Durango. Like or not, it's one of those places where who you know (and whether they like you or not) will dictate whether or not you get an opportunity to succeed. Which brings me to my last point:

Be "Mr. Smart***" to one wrong person in Durango can get you blackballed to where nobody in town will hire you. If you understand Latin, they can make you "persona non grata." So, lose that 12"x12" oak chip you've got on your shoulder. If you don't there will be plenty of people in Durango (or anywhere else) more than willing to knock it off for you.


That's a FANTASTIC post, Jazz. As you say, sounds like you guys/gals who are Colorado natives wouldn't value the entrepreneurial ideas of newcomers, and have political clout over "controlling" everything that goes on. The complete opposite of where I'm from on the West Coast, where newcomers have an equal stake in all the debates.

What you describe in terms of the good old boy attitude is very similar to Flagstaff, Arizona, where special interest groups seem to have a strong "control" of the political process and economic development. To be specific, the town (county?) didn't allow an electric car plant to come in, rejected a full size Superwallmart, citizens got angry at the YMCA, Catholics, and members of the Mormon stake, etc.

Entrepreneurs and philanthropists from the East Coast and Phoenix come to Flagstaff, and run into problems with the locals and the City council. Does this sort of thing happen in Durango?

Can anyone else endorse what Jazz says about the good old boy Colorado natives run Durango?

How about the other Colorado mountain towns?

We need to find mountain / outdoors / college towns w/ a West Coast, open-minded version of Liberal Capitalism, that welcome outsiders as entrepreneurs and in the political process, such as Olympia, WA; Eugene, OR; Berkeley, CA; Santa Cruz, CA; etc.

It sounds like Durango could be like Boulder, where there are political interests creating a non-negotiable urban growth boundary, and exercising imminent domain over private businesses, and not allowing certain businesses in town (Boulder and Santa Fe, NM still do not have a Superwallmart).

Thanks, Jazz, your post is very well written and exactly what I ran into in Flagstaff, Albuquerque, and Santa Fe. I would never live in a place like that again, including Boulder. Ft. Collins? Maybe.

Last edited by CCCVDUR; 01-24-2010 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,319,527 times
Reputation: 6816
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCVDUR View Post
We need to find mountain / outdoors / college towns w/ a West Coast, open-minded version of Liberal Capitalism, that welcome outsiders into economic development, and the political process, such as Olympia, WA; Eugene, OR; Berkeley, CA; Santa Cruz, CA; etc.
In most places run by "grown-ups" there is generally a group of active civic leaders who are respected and trusted to run things because of what they've contributed to the community over the years and because they've developed strong social networks. They are generally drawn from the local professional and business elites. That's just the way it is in most towns.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:40 PM
 
857 posts, read 1,351,357 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
In most places run by "grown-ups" there is generally a group of active civic leaders who are respected and trusted to run things because of what they've contributed to the community over the years and because they've developed strong social networks. They are generally drawn from the local professional and business elites. That's just the way it is in most towns.

KAVA - That is absolutely true in the 4 Corners States ... however, in the Pacific Northwest (Seattle, Portland, Willamette Valley, etc.) it's not so much the case. Equal participation is given to all special interest groups, and there is significant citizen involvement in civic affairs. So, it's not just a few families or businessmen controlling everything. Bill Gates has a lot of bitter enemies.

I read somewhere that Seattle, for example, has the highest percentage of talk radio (political talk, probably?) listeners as measured by Arbitron ratings. And I mean ALL politcal groups in the Northwest: Far right conservatives, far left liberals, libertarians, greens, environmental groups, gay rights, gun rights, property rights, etc. Eugene, Oregon is a hotbed of protest from the far left, however, just a few miles away you find far religious right individuals in the Siskiyous w/ their conspiracy theories.

Arizona has the lowest civic involvement of any state. That is especially true in Flagstaff, Arizona which in my mind is the Political Antithesis of the West Coast of the US. If Durango politics / economics are anything like Flagstaff, then I wouldn't like that. The place that I'm looking for has to involve newcomers in the political process and serving on boards and committees, since that translates into openness to entrepreneurs.

Sounds like the West coast is best for this? Or, New England?
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,319,527 times
Reputation: 6816
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCVDUR View Post
That may be true in the 4 Corners States ... however, in the Pacific Northwest (Seattle, Portland, Willamette Valley, etc.) equal participation is given to all special interest groups, and there is significant citizen involvement in civic affairs. I read somewhere that Seattle, for example, has the highest percentage of talk radio (political talk, probably?) listeners as measured by Arbitron ratings..
I wasn't aware there were places where talk radio listeners ran the show. I think you have a very naive view of how things work in the world of politics. I doubt the NW, Durango, or anywhere else is much different from what I described above. You have to prove yourself to the community before they're going to take you seriously.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,319,527 times
Reputation: 6816
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCVDUR View Post
Sounds like the West coast is best for this? Or, New England?
Yes. I would recommend you refocus your efforts on one of those other places. Might be better for you to hang out on the Oregon or Vermont forums for a while and see how they react.
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