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Old 06-21-2010, 11:35 PM
 
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The Denver Post article had, at the bottom, a "related" article in the NY Times about "green building." Featured a modular 1800 sq.ft. house in New York that sold for some $360,000 and was used as an occasional retreat by its owner, as it is a second house. Methinks the green value is cancelled out by being a duplicate use?
The truth is not that economic growth/development is inevitable. If development must prove water availability to get a permit, it might not be approved (aside from strongarming current water users and paying off other people). If there's not enough water, there just isn't. Nada. It is finite.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:26 AM
 
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Well, another Red Flag Warning for western and southern Colorado today. Temps in the 90's at the lower elevations, with humidities dropping to single digits. Unseasonably persistent winds continue. Perfect fire weather.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:53 AM
 
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Jazzlover is right and we have another fire to contend with as well. 11 News here in Grand Jct. reports a fire just outside of the Parkdale area this morning. Parkdale is maybe 10 miles west to where Canon City and the Royal Gorge sits, off U.S. Hwy. 50.

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 06-22-2010 at 04:32 PM..
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I see no reason that the taxpayers of the United States should be on the hook for defending homes built in fire-prone tinderboxes against inevitable fires. That is stupid public policy and flies in the face of such people being held responsible for their own actions. I feel the same way about people building in flood plains or areas with near certain beach erosion. The taxpayers should not be subisidizing their folly. It is especially egregious when the Forest Service is defending private structures built in a stupid location where the structure's only purpose is to give the owner a place to goof off.

It is my firm contention that the purpose of the US Forest Service is manage and protect the National Forests owned by the people of the United States, NOT defend the private properties snuggled up against them. The fact that the Forest Service now must expend a considerable portion of its budget to defend private structures built in stupid places only decreases the amount of financial resources it needs to properly manage the National Forests.

Our current forest fire policy amounts to a subsidy to people engaging in risky, dumb behavior. As is usually the case, when you subsidize something, you get more of it. If those people were held responsible for their less than intelligent behavior (by having to pay to defend their own poorly located structures from fire, or by losing it to fire altogether), I'd bet a lot of that risky behavior would stop.
I don't think it's any more risky or dumb than people living anywhere else. California has earthquakes, Oklahoma has tornados, Florida has hurricanes and so on. There are natural disasters that can happen anywhere. I think you are being excessively judgmental about other people and there is no reason NOT to defend private property when we can.

There are no "smart" places to live. Every place in the country has some issue it has to deal with.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DOUBLE H View Post
Jazzlover is right and we have another fire to contend with as well. 11 News here in Grand Jct. reports a fire just outside of the Parkdale area this morning. Parkdale is about the halfway point to where canon City and the Royal Gorge sits, off U.S. Hwy. 50.
Latest report I've seen says that Royal Gorge bridge is closed and traffic on US50 is being led through the fire area one-way at a time by pilot vehicles. 0% containment shown on fire with dismal fire weather forecast for this afternoon. This is living proof that wildfire can burn savagely through piñon-juniper woodlands ("P-J" in forestry nomenclature) under the right conditions.

Story here: 9NEWS.com | Denver | Colorado's Online News Leader | Crews continue to battle fires across state

It should be noted that neither this fire nor the Medano fire in the Great Sand Dunes National Park is burning in dead lodgepole. That little coming attraction is being saved for a likely debut later this summer . . .
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
I don't think it's any more risky or dumb than people living anywhere else. California has earthquakes, Oklahoma has tornados, Florida has hurricanes and so on. There are natural disasters that can happen anywhere. I think you are being excessively judgmental about other people and there is no reason NOT to defend private property when we can.

There are no "smart" places to live. Every place in the country has some issue it has to deal with.
There is not a parallel between disaster occurrences that rarely occur in one specific location--a tornado hitting a particular town, for example, and a natural disaster that can be anticipated to occur in the same location at relatively frequent intervals, such as a fire in a lodgepole forest.

This paper from CSU describes the lodgepole forests of Colorado quite well. It should be noted that it was published before the outbreak pine beetles became completely epidemic, however. The descriptive charts at the bottom of the paper are noteworthy, especially column "D" that talks about lodgepole forest area where human development and disturbance is common. This comment in that column pretty much says it all when it comes to wildfire:

Quote:
Frequencies and intensities of fires are out of natural range and not restorable.
The paper here:

http://www.cnhp.colostate.edu/downlo...ine_Forest.pdf
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:18 PM
gn3
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
147 posts, read 358,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Latest report I've seen says that Royal Gorge bridge is closed and traffic on US50 is being led through the fire area one-way at a time by pilot vehicles. 0% containment shown on fire with dismal fire weather forecast for this afternoon. This is living proof that wildfire can burn savagely through piñon-juniper woodlands ("P-J" in forestry nomenclature) under the right conditions.

Story here: 9NEWS.com | Denver | Colorado's Online News Leader | Crews continue to battle fires across state

It should be noted that neither this fire nor the Medano fire in the Great Sand Dunes National Park is burning in dead lodgepole. That little coming attraction is being saved for a likely debut later this summer . . .
You are so excited for this projected disaster to happen that you can hardly stand it. That's pretty sad.
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gn3 View Post
You are so excited for this projected disaster to happen that you can hardly stand it. That's pretty sad.
It's not about being excited about it, it's accepting the fact that it is inevitable. Unfortunately, when it comes to lodegpole forest fires particularly, the longer it is before those inevitable fires occur, the more severe, widespread, with long, long-lasting effects they will be. The just a fact of life with fire ecology in the lodgepole forest. So, I guess in that sense, sooner may be better.

By the way, I just got back from seeing the Medano fires (not in lodgepole pine) relatively up close and personal. Seeing it "blow up" a couple of times should convince anyone of the folly of building in the "Stupid Zone." That fire may actually be doing good, though, by clearing out a lot of ovegrowth in the understory without "crowning out" and killing all the mature trees. This morning it was pretty laid down.
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:06 AM
 
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Here we go.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/us/28mead.html?_r=1
RP
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by proveick View Post
Great article. One thing that the growing water problems prove--but no one wants to hear--is that reservoir storage is only false security in a long-term drought if base water demand goes beyond what riverflows can sustain. It's like basing the size of your family on how full your freezer is without looking at how much food goes into the freezer compared to what goes out. If the latter exceeds the former, your family will eventually starve no matter how much storage capacity the freezer has. When it comes to the Colorado River Basin, we're at or beyond the point that streamflows can accomodate water demands. From now on, every bit of population growth in this region will mean that water has to be taken from someone else or some other existing use. No more free lunches.
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