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Old 02-25-2010, 02:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
So, Sunsprit, is your position that the OP will find it impossible to find a middle-class + neighborhood on his budget within a reasonable commute to Denver? I think he can do it, if he's financially well-prepared for the move, secures employment ahead of time, and is willing to put time and effort into researching his housing options. I would never suggest the somebody just throw his stuff in the back of a U-haul, head for Colorado, and hope for the best. That's a recipe for disaster no matter what your final destination, but I doubt that's what the OP is planning.
No, my position is not that "it's impossible", which asserts an absolute certainty that it can't be done.

But given the current economy in the area, the lackluster jobs hiring in the OP's respective professional employment areas, and the low price point of housing that they asked for ... I'd caution them that it's a highly unlikely combination at this time. Which is what I've been posting all along.

We certainly haven't seen an overwhelming posting of folks asserting a favorable job hiring environment in the Denver metro area lately for their fields ... and I can readily recall times when Denver was booming for these types of professionals. Really hurting ... and advertising for a lot of job openings. Where are those ads now?

RE: heading out without a plan in the proverbial U-Haul (and I used to be able to put everything I owned into my 1964 Ford Custom, so picking up was really easy) ... please refer to ocean2026's comments in response #27. They would differ with you, I think ....
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:01 PM
 
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Substitute teaching would be a good option for the OP's girlfriend and it could lead eventually to a full-time position, but I don't have anything substantive to share with the OP about options for his employment other than what I wrote before about my neighbor. If he knows people in Denver, I'd definitely suggest he begin plumbing his contacts. Personal recommendation is, as always, the best way to secure employment.

As far as neighborhoods, the OP might find good housing options in the southern part of Arapahoe county (Centennial). While the houses aren't extravagant, the area tends to attract highly-educated professionals, and is easily accessible from light-rail. Certainly, we seem to have more than our share of doctors, lawyers, engineers, computer scientists, etc. It is, however, a family-oriented suburb, so if he's seeking a night-life, he will need to look elsewhere.

For the record, when did $300k become a low price point for housing? Good grief! Has the world gone mad? That's a heck of a lot of money.

Last edited by formercalifornian; 02-25-2010 at 03:21 PM..
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Substitute teaching would an option for the OP's girlfriend, but I don't have anything substantive to share with the OP about options for his employment other than what I wrote before about my neighbor, an attorney, who relocated last year from the midwest.

As far as neighborhoods, the OP might find good housing options in the southern part of Arapahoe county (Centennial). While the houses aren't extravagant, the area tends to attract highly-educated professionals. Certainly, we seem to have more than our share of doctors, lawyers, engineers, computer scientists, etc.

For the record, when did $300k become a low price point for housing? Good grief! Has the world gone mad? That's a heck of a lot of money.
Uh, yes ... especially when one's point of reference is having bought very livable houses in the Denver metro area for well under $20,000, or a sizable Park Hill house for $29,500 that didn't need any work (although we remodeled the kitchen/dining and bathrooms throughout), or a three-level house (multi-generational family type) in Boulder "on the hill" for $30,000 or a sizable 6 bd/3ba single family house on a fabulous end of the cul-de-sac view site overlooking Vail for $150,000 (now assessed at close to $2 mil) ...

or looking at the houses in Point Loma that my folks bought for $30,000 or so that had fabulous views of San Diego and Mission Bay, or were just down the street from the Shelter Island area YC's we belonged to ... that have more recently traded in the $2 mil range (and up, I'm afraid) ... when my Dad's salary was in the $40K range at G-D ... and my Mom worked for about half that income level in OB.

Another perspective, although it's commercial real estate ... my Mom's employer let her "buy in" on some of his development projects. I'm now a very small percentage owner of several motel chain properties in LA ... which kick out almost as much money annually to me as my Mom invested in the 1980's. It's not a huge amount of dollars, but it's the concept of seeing an annual return equal to the original investment sum .... Other limited partners have children living off the cash flow from their original investment, and the General Partners made millions.

Yeah, it's madness. Going from housing price points that were comparable to about one year's gross income to seeing demand take it soaring to many multiple years worth of income. And then seeing the whole business model associated with it ... from the real estate agents taking 6-7% of the transaction values off the top, to the lenders and the lending institutions making huge profits, to the insurance industry coming up with all kinds on "needed" protection for everybody from the lender to the borrower and getting their piece of the action ... and then the taxman, aided by the county assessor, gets their piece of the pie every year.

What's even more devastating is to look at is the Denver/Front Range regional history of a lot of housing ... for example, the number of Craftsman houses in the area. Y'know ... folks paid cash for those houses, had them shipped out, and then had them erected on their sites ... no mortgage, no PMI insurance, no huge debt load and carrying costs. If you had the ability to save up for awhile, you'd buy a lot or lots, buy your house ... and be done with it out of normal income cash flow. That included your stoves (summer and winter kitchens were common), heating plant, domestic hot water supply, plumbing, a lot of built in cabinets/closets, finished storage spaces, decorations, carpeting/rugs, draperies/blinds, even storm windows. You can see a lot of this type of housing that was built in the region, and it wasn't the domain of the affluent ... regular working people at jobs, not professions, could do this.


It's been interesting watching this thread ... Katiana mentioned that the housing in the Louisville area had gone down 20%, according to a flyer from a local realtor. So, one figures, that it's a bargain right now, right? Head on over to the multi-list or "homes online" and see what the price points are. You'll find that much under $250K is the price point for townhouses and condo's, not single family homes. It takes $300K and up in the current offerings to buy a nice middle class home there. Having done the Boulder-Denver commute for some years, back when the traffic wasn't the issue it is today (and we got to stop for the tollbooth) ... I'd hardly suggest that it would be advisable to make that commute now in today's traffic. But I'd say that the Louisville area development at that price point is much nicer and better quality than the K-C area at similar price points ... and very comparable as to the economic demographics of the residents there. Lots of professionals associated with all the high-tech plants in the Boulder area ....

Last edited by sunsprit; 02-25-2010 at 03:49 PM..
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,119 posts, read 99,277,101 times
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I seriously doubt that Louisville is cheaper than Ken-Caryl. $300,000 won't get you all that much here, and it won't be on any land. Prices may have dropped 20%, but they were pretty high to begin with.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I seriously doubt that Louisville is cheaper than Ken-Caryl. $300,000 won't get you all that much here, and it won't be on any land. Prices may have dropped 20%, but they were pretty high to begin with.
I agree ... Louisville isn't any cheaper than K-C, but it's got nicer homes at the same price points in that $300-500K range. K-C land gets a premium for being in the foothills while Louisville is out on the plains and some distance away from the mountains. Once you get into the 7-figure range in either area, it's kind of a wash ....

Last edited by sunsprit; 02-25-2010 at 06:07 PM..
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,119 posts, read 99,277,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
I agree ... Louisville isn't any cheaper than K-C, but it's got nicer homes at the same price points in that $300-500K range. K-C land gets a premium for being in the foothills while Louisville is out on the plains and some distance away from the mountains. Once you get into the 7-figure range in either area, it's kind of a wash ....
The western boundary of Louisville is 3.5 miles east of Boulder. Are you thinking of perhaps Frederick or Firestone? It takes about 45 min. to get to Eldora Ski Area from Louisville.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The western boundary of Louisville is 3.5 miles east of Boulder. Are you thinking of perhaps Frederick or Firestone? It takes about 45 min. to get to Eldora Ski Area from Louisville.
Not at all. It's on the plains. Even Boulder is mostly on the plains, and it's only in it's west reaches that it's actually in the foothills. Having lived in Boulder 1964-1970 ... and in Erie at Hwy 52/WCR 5 ... I think I know when I've pedaled my bicycle on flat ground as opposed to heading up Boulder canyon or up Flagstaff mountain ... or any of the county roads heading up into the hills to Eldora or Gold Hill or wherever .... And I've ridden my horses in the Boulder Open Spaces all around the area, or around the County Line areas ... or at Rabbit Mountain.

The Boulder Res is on the plains. The Boulder HydoElectric plant is on the plains. The Boulder airport is on the plains. The old Beech Aircraft plant on North Broadway is on the plains. All very much West of Louisville.

I especially appreciate the difference of knowing when I've hit the lower elevation terrain area and plains when I descend over the rocks heading eastward coming off Corona Pass, where I typically cross at around 12,000' elevation, and can get lower to duck out of the turbulence on some days. I've flown a lot into Boulder's airport since 1965, and into Frederick/Firestone, and Longmont. Yes, I think I know what flat terrain looks like ... and I used to be based at 2V2(longmont), then at Erie before moving out of the area.

I think you've got to be pretty much up Canyon Blvd out of core Boulder or on West Mapleton past the Boulder Hospital or up by Chataqua before you're into the foothills. East of that is pretty flat, especially by the time you've past 28th or the powerplant. With Louisville's western boundary being 3.5 miles EAST of that Boulder area, it's definitely out on the plains.

In comparison, most of the K-C Ranch is actually in the Foothills ... with lots of elevation changes ....

is it possible that you don't know where the K-C ranch is at? try google earth, and you'll see the topography difference.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,119 posts, read 99,277,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
is it possible that you don't know where the K-C ranch is at? try google earth, and you'll see the topography difference.
No.

I guess we all have our own defintions of "plains" and "foothills".
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:34 PM
 
726 posts, read 1,820,519 times
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I agree with Katiana. I would never consider Boulder or Louisville "the plains."
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
4,932 posts, read 8,955,014 times
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Maybe the recession will eventually cause real estates high prices to crash and bring them down from their astronomical levels. If this recession is tracking the Great Depression, as some people say, then we've only passed the beginning stages of it and there are several years left.
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