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Unread 09-02-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
6,847 posts, read 8,393,507 times
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If the sun spot activity reverts to pre '99 levels, there is likely to be some relief. It seems unlikely that the current global warming is due soley to the irresponsible behaviour of humans. I think the Sun is playing into it as well, but we are certainly not helping our cause by polluting the planet so recklessly.
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Unread 09-06-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
537 posts, read 265,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
If the sun spot activity reverts to pre '99 levels, there is likely to be some relief. It seems unlikely that the current global warming is due soley to the irresponsible behaviour of humans. I think the Sun is playing into it as well, but we are certainly not helping our cause by polluting the planet so recklessly.

I heard a story (NPR?) a few days ago that talked about a recent temperature study that's purpose was to use historical records to get a better view of temperature trends over the last 200+ years and they said they were surprised to find almost no correlation between temperatures and sun-spot activity. I'll have to see if I can find a link as my memory is a little foggy this morning.

Edit:
Here's the link - http://www.npr.org/2012/08/03/158085...anging-climate
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Unread 09-06-2012, 11:52 AM
 
642 posts, read 149,879 times
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Just noticed today that several public spaces around my neighborhood that were previously covered in grass (medians and such) are in the process of being xeriscaped.
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Unread 09-06-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
7,542 posts, read 7,386,126 times
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Exclamation Lake Pueblo hits 5-year low

The Pueblo reservoir is at a 5 year low due to the drought. Not really a critical situation but I am hoping for a snowy winter in the mountains to replenish the lake. There was no water restrictions this summer and so far Pueblo is not expecting any water restrictions next summer either so that is good.

This is from the Pueblo Chieftain:


One Pueblo West resident joked that someone told him to jump in a lake over the Labor Day weekend. He couldn’t find it — at least at the west end of the reservoir. He enjoyed “walking on water,” instead. It’s not really that bad, but Lake Pueblo is at its lowest level in five years as drought conditions continue in the Arkansas River basin. There are approximately 167,000 acre-feet of water stored in Lake Pueblo, about 35,000 acre-feet less than at the same time last year, and 65 percent of capacity.


The link: Lake Pueblo hits 5-year low - Pueblo Chieftain: Southern Colorado Water
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Unread 09-07-2012, 12:11 PM
 
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Wink Not all that enchanting

"As a scientist, I know that this is unprecedented in at least as much as 1,500 years. It is truly amazing - it is a huge dramatic change in the system," Dr Hansen said.' [1]


Per the interview with physicist Richard Muller, I find it notable that he says that even a year ago he might have doubted global warming. Some commenters following that article disagree, insisting Mr. Muller had mentioned such a possibility years previous. Just as well, otherwise how could one lend much credence to someone seemingly blind to that obvious to most anyone else willing to poke their head out the door and take a good look?

Be that as it may, Mr. Muller is apparently now convinced with a major study to draw upon, with data since 1753 indicating sun spots, volcanos and all other natural phenomena having relatively little effect on this Earth's climate compared to that decisively caused by mankind. Anyone noting that the last twelve months have been the warmest on record in the United States might tend to agree. Yet Mr. Muller goes on to say this occurrence confined to the United States, with our globe actually cooling for the last three to four years.

What? This article doesn't really explain. Even taking account of the effects of latency, it hardly seems probable that an overall cooling planet would result in new record highs. As I understand this, our planet may actually be within a natural cooling phase—or would be if left to its own devices. But with man-made greenhouse gases at about 400ppm, and well beyond any normal range, par for the course does not apply. So this planet could be cooling somewhat, but instead rapidly going in the other direction with our assistance.

A close look from planet Earth bears this out. For instance, scientists are surprised at how quickly the ice sheet in Greenland is melting, this region of course being geographically separate from our overheated land of stars and stripes. It is a greater change than they expected twenty years ago, and even in the last ten, with all accelerating. As with so much else, that in motion tends to remain that way, and exponentially increasing in tempo. When ice melts from the Arctic Ocean or becomes thinner on an ice cap with melted ice as water, more warmth from the sun is captured, heightening the process.

One can easily see the effects in Colorado as well. Not just in the quite strange weather this year, but in trends over years towards warmer temperatures and less precipitation. It is evident not only with the significantly reduced streamflows this summer, and relative lack of snow in the high country, but in the culmative effects upon the broader ecosystem. In trees which increasingly cannot cope, now susceptible to the mountain pine beetle and other ailments. In other trees still alive naturally shedding some needles come autumn, but radically so in a struggle to survive. In the different cycle of plants and wildlife, changing habits and moving to areas previously without them. Or such as the pika moving upwards in its preferred alpine environments, and quickly running out of room for any more adjustment.

This last winter so light in snow, and early summer drought leading to many mega wildfires, was influenced by the jet stream diverging from its normal course. In Europe the expectation is that a warming planet will see a disruption not only in the jet stream but also possibly vital ocean currents as well. Much of Europe at its higher latitudes is only as habitable as it is due the tempering effects of these warm currents. Were they to shift or more nearly stop, all bets would be off. At a minimum it is expected that due shifts in the weather that northern Europe will become wetter, southern Europe significantly drier. Unfortunately the same trend is largely expected to manifest on the North American continent. All areas can expect less temperate, harsher and more extreme weather; some areas, such as in Canada and certain regions of the Pacific Northwest should become wetter; the Southwest United States, including Colorado, can expect much the opposite, with less precipitation and warmer temperatures.

None of that bodes well for our water resources. That witnessed this year will surely vary from year to year, yet in trend become more the norm. There should be less snowpack in the mountains, earlier melting in the spring with commensurately lower river volumes, with less than normally expected come autumn and winter. The quality of this water will also change, becoming warmer, which will affect both associated vegetation and aquatic life. Problems formally of little concern, such as algae, will become more common. The current near black state of the Cache la Poudre River attests to the intrinsic tie with the land and what transpires with such as wildfires. The economic costs will be varied, with at times disruption of expected water supplies, as well as greater need of filtering. Even without a continuing trend in this direction, the effects are lingering. The wildfire in the northeast corner of RMNP in 2010 continues in its effects. With water, that from this wildfire not washed out in days or weeks, but the large amount of fine black silt still evident in every eddy, ever ready to be further released with heavy rains.

Those valuing what Colorado is, or still largely retains, might wish to take a picture as memento. For it is all changing rapidly. Decisions made within this state cannot have a decisive effect upon this; those half a world removed, such as the Chinese, will have more influence. Even if mankind radically changed his ways—being not only unlikely, but in fact accelerating with only more of the same—the die is already cast. No more than latency will see this trend continue and heighten for years to come. Colorado and the life within it will change in some quite distinct ways: as rough generalization, becoming more like New Mexico.

Ask anyone in the Land of Enchantment how their water situation is.


1) 'Arctic ice melting at 'amazing' speed, scientists find,' BBC
BBC News - Arctic ice melting at 'amazing' speed, scientists find

2) 'Changing Views About A Changing Climate,' NPR
Changing Views About A Changing Climate : NPR
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Unread 09-07-2012, 02:38 PM
 
2,824 posts, read 1,318,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
If the sun spot activity reverts to pre '99 levels, there is likely to be some relief. It seems unlikely that the current global warming is due soley to the irresponsible behaviour of humans. I think the Sun is playing into it as well, but we are certainly not helping our cause by polluting the planet so recklessly.
What seems unlikely to me, is that humans can continue to multiply like a plague of insects, devouring everything in our path. Causing pollution and massive environmental damage and not have serious repercussions to our environment, such as but not limited to global warming.
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Unread 09-07-2012, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
6,847 posts, read 8,393,507 times
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KaaBoom wrote: What seems unlikely to me, is that humans can continue to multiply like a plague of insects, devouring everything in our path.

^^^That too!
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Unread 09-08-2012, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
1,428 posts, read 930,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
If the sun spot activity reverts to pre '99 levels, there is likely to be some relief. It seems unlikely that the current global warming is due soley to the irresponsible behaviour of humans. I think the Sun is playing into it as well, but we are certainly not helping our cause by polluting the planet so recklessly.
The CO2 problem in the atmosphere is like population growth. It starts slow, so people get lulled into a false sense of security, and then it accelerates quickly out of control.




__________________________________________________ _________



Pretty soon we'll reach the point of no return for both.
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Unread 09-08-2012, 10:02 PM
 
1,804 posts, read 2,187,595 times
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Wink The Exponential Function

This has to do with exponential growth, or rather the concept and reality of how in nature it is possible for something to begin as small and slow as a seed, yet in a moment seemingly quickly flourish into tree—or anything else.

Former CU professor Dr. Albert A. Bartlett provides an excellent discussion of the particulars. This has been mentioned before within the Colorado forum, and aptly so, yet bears repeating, for it touches upon so much else, in water resources, population, you name it.

This reference to the first of eight videos as this discussion divided:


The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8) - YouTube
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Unread 09-10-2012, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
537 posts, read 265,763 times
Reputation: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
What seems unlikely to me, is that humans can continue to multiply like a plague of insects, devouring everything in our path. Causing pollution and massive environmental damage and not have serious repercussions to our environment, such as but not limited to global warming.

Well, geez, when you put it like THAT...
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