Colorado and the West is running out of water . . . (Pueblo: transfer, salary)

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by CometVoyager

Many of us know that the Grand Valley and most of that part of Colorado only receives about 8 inches of rainfall a year! So why are people not in a panic? The main reason is because of the vast and extensive network of the Colorado Plateau Aquifer!

Mesa Verde and Dakota Glenn alone contain bountiful water resources and paired with the Coconino De Chelly make it possible for thriving growth and development.

More misinformation. The water in the "Colorado Plateau Aquifer" has been studied for years. Most of it--especially in New Mexico, Utah, and Colorado--is highly mineralized--mostly with salts, but also with magnesium and other undesirable minerals. Much of it also contains extensive dissolved solids, which are both hard to remove and can cause rapid deterioration in pumping equipment. The very depth of the formations in which this water is generally found has made pumping costs prohibitive in many areas, even before energy prices increased dramatically. Read some more about it here:

Colorado Plateaus Aquifer by Erin Allen

[Josseppie]

Jazz,

Then are you saying that Pueblo is the only major city in Colorado with enough water to grow?

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Jazz,

Then are you saying that Pueblo is the only major city in Colorado with enough water to grow?

No, what I am saying is that any new water supplies for municipal growth as it is practiced now in Colorado are likely to come from:

a) The continued drying up of prime Colorado agricultural land and high mountain wetlands. This has been the preferred and cheapest source for years. It is also one of the most environmentally and--in my opinion--most long-term economically damaging ways to acquire water.

b) Continued depletion of largely non-renewable aquifers. A stupid and self-destructing method.

c) Continued damming up of free-flowing rivers, flooding of irreplaceable canyons and riparian wetlands--the rarest ecosystems in Colorado. Also, a very destructive practice, as well as being horrifically expensive (often with much of the cost socialized on the existing rate-payers--many of which get no benefit from the population growth the water expansion is designed to promote). It is going to get even more horrendously expensive in the future because of the simple fact that easy and cheap-to-build projects have already been built.

If anyone has a brain in their head when it comes to resource conservation and environmental protection, it should be obvious that none of these are very attractive options.

The big lie, perpetrated by the municipal "water buffaloes" and embraced by an ignorant public is that, without additional water supplies, growth will be impossible and the taps will dry up. The fact is that most domestic indoor use of water (culinary, washing, bathing, etc.) is largely non-consumptive use when the waste goes into a sanitary sewer system. That water is treated and released to a streamcourse where it may be used downstream. (Septic systems in rural subdivisions generally have more consumptive use than sanitary sewer systems.) What is consumptive use is the stupid irrigation of non-native plants in yards. That is 100% consumptive use. So, we are draining wetlands, damming up rivers, flooding canyons, and depleting aquifers MOSTLY so people can water their ****ing Kentucky bluegrass. It has little to do with drinking water. Stop or seriously curtail consumptive use of municipal water supplies, and there will be plenty of water available for significant growth in most any Colorado city or town. Is agriculture a consumptive use of water? Yes. But it is growing FOOD--there's a big difference there.

So, when some horse's *** says that without new water supplies, "X" city will not be able to grow--it's bull****. They just won't be able to grow and continue to recklessly waste water in the way that they do now.

[Josseppie]

My question is why should Pueblo be punished because we have planned ahead, un like other cities, and not overgrown our resources so that it enables us to have Kentucky Blue grass? I use the same amount of water that my grandparents used when they first built this house in the 1960's, nothing more nothing less.

As far as reservoirs, you and I can not be more apart. I love the Pueblo Reservoir and think it enhanced the quality of life here, and reduced the risk of floods, and for the farming out east. That combined with the Minnequa Lake and the proposed lakes on the Fountain River will help keep Pueblo a great city in my opinion.

[MtnFlyer]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

What is consumptive use is the stupid irrigation of non-native plants in yards. That is 100% consumptive use.

Wait a minute. Am I understanding you correctly in that you're saying water used to irrigate a lawn is completely removed from the water cycle?

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by MtnFlyer

Wait a minute. Am I understanding you correctly in that you're saying water used to irrigate a lawn is completely removed from the water cycle?

It is consumptive use in that most all of it goes into the atmosphere by evapotransporation from the plants. That water in the atmosphere will eventually fall back to earth as precipitation, but most likely far east of Colorado and far downstream in a river basin--if it falls in the same river basin at all. Water is never "created nor destroyed," it is just somewhere in the hydrologic cycle, but if it is lost to the river basin where it originates, it is consumptive use from a practical and a legal standpoint. That is also why water diverted from one river basin to another is considered 100% consumptive use in the basin from which it originates--even if the use in the basin where it is used is non-consumptive. So, water diverted from the Western Slope to the Eastern Slope is a fully consumptive use for the the Western Slope, no matter what the usage of the water on the Eastern Slope. The only way that has been mitigated (to some extent) is by building "compensatory storage" on the Western Slope to try to retain water that would otherwise go downstream to "compensate" for the diverted water. That was possible when some of the Upper Colorado River Basin streamflows were still under-appropriated, but relatively few are now.

It actually gets a lot more complicated than this, but that is a thumbnail explanation. That's why their are so many water lawyers, and the water courts stay really busy.

[CometVoyager]

It certainly does not surprise me when I read through this thread, as most the the information we hear today from the radio, television and read in our newspapers truly must be scrutinized because no less than 70% is inaccurate and hyperbole! In many cases all you have is an attempt of trying to portray some semblance of authority whether it be in a newspaper, television or worse yet an unsubstantiated forum.

Getting back to what I stated earlier with regards to Western Colorado, Utah, Nevada, New Mexico & Arizona. The Colorado Plateaus Aquifer is gigantic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:e ek::e ek:
It has so many, many sub aquifers that have an expanse of no less than 100K Square Miles and all of these aquifers provide driniking water and are extremely crucial to the people in that part of our country. The many rivers, creeks and lakes are usually where all the aquifers drain into and it is theorized that significant recharge comes from very high altitude ground and surface water sources.

Then if you ever have the plesure to head SW to the Arizona, Nevada & Utah border check out the [SIZE=2] Coconino Plateau basin, and you will see that many municipalities do derive their water supply from this source! In fact it one main source is ground water as a very large part of the source of ground water for Arizona begins in Colorado.

[/SIZE][SIZE=2]There is so much groundwater in that area and a lot of it moves northward and and eventually is revealed from so many springs near Havasu, the Little Rivers, Colorado River.

These springs are huge!!!! All you have to do is go visit Blue Springs and visit Havasu Springs!!!! These suckers have a combined yield of no less than 130K gallons per minute!!!! !!!!

In fact the Verde River which partitions Utah, Nevada & Arizona[/SIZE] receives a lot of ground water which is revealed as upper springs fed from Colorado!!!!

I have attached a Map of how huge this aquifer is! Seeing sometimes is believing!!!

So please fellow Forum posters, do not be fooled by the sky is falling posts or the world is about to end claims!!!

Colorado has enough water to quench the thirst of no less than 100 million people each day for the next three hundred years baring a nuclear holocaust or major volcanic eruption!

[jazzlover]

Yep, a pretty map. But it says nothing about the quantity or overall quality of the water available, or whether the water can be economically produced from wells in any significant quantities. Read up on some of the studies by the Arizona Dept. of Water Resources, the National Park Service, etc. You will see a much different picture than the rosy one pictured above.

Oh, and by the way, in Colorado, at least, if water entering an aquifer from the surface ("recharge") has been appropriated prior to the issuance of a well permit (that first-in-use, first-in-right thing), and the withdrawal by well from the aquifer is shown to harm senior surface water right owners--well, guess what?--the well gets shut down.

I'm sure that you believe Elvis is alive and well, too . . .

[MtnFlyer]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Oh, and by the way, in Colorado, at least, if water entering an aquifer from the surface ("recharge") has been appropriated prior to the issuance of a well permit (that first-in-use, first-in-right thing), and the withdrawal by well from the aquifer is shown to harm senior surface water right owners--well, guess what?--the well gets shut down.

So why not just institute a moratorium on new residential construction? Although I'm not familiar with this type action having been instituted on a wide scale level, it's certianly not a new concept for resolving water issues on a municipal or county-wide basis. In some cases it's simply instituted to combat low water pressure.

If this concern is really this dire, wouldn't the state intervene?

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by MtnFlyer

So why not just institute a moratorium on new residential construction? Although I'm not familiar with this type action having been instituted on a wide scale level, it's certianly not a new concept for resolving water issues on a municipal or county-wide basis. In some cases it's simply instituted to combat low water pressure.

If this concern is really this dire, wouldn't the state intervene?

Because the Colorado political process is dominated by the developer and real estate interests. Any politician who is perceived as opposing them can be assured of a very short political career. I've been on the "inside" of the political process and have seen exactly how this works--it's vicious.