Colorado and the West is running out of water . . . (Denver: agricultural, bills)

[Josseppie]

Final thoughts on my trip to see how Pueblo gets our water:

This was a very interesting trip in fact a person from the Aurora board of water works was with us and I learnd a lot about how they get their water as well as Colorado Springs. There are a two things that really surprised me.

1. How complicated it is to bring water for me to use. Before this trip when I thought of the fry pan project I just thought of the Pueblo Reservoir and had no idea of the complexities of getting the water to the Pueblo Reservoir.

2. I had always viewed water as a war between cities and in some ways they do argue, especially over water rights but the cities actually work together more then I thought especially Pueblo, Colorado Springs and Aurora. They do this because of how expensive it is to build and maintain the large systems in the mountains and to deal with all the necessary legal costs. This changes my view of the SDS for the Springs and I am a supporter of it as long as they do their part of the agreement they made with Pueblo county.

One final thing is I found that cities all along the front range offer trips like this so its citizens can see where their water comes from. I highly recommend taking the trip as it is very informative and well worth your time.

Now for some of the pictures of the reservoirs and ditches I saw on my trip:

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Final thoughts on my trip to see how Pueblo gets our water:...

One final thing is I found that cities all along the front range offer trips like this so its citizens can see where their water comes from. I highly recommend taking the trip as it is very informative and well worth your time.

Nice thoughts and photos. I think I'll take a little trip to see where Palmer Lake gets it's water from. It's about about a 30 minute jog from here... Maybe I'll even post pics later.

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by treedonkey

Nice thoughts and photos. I think I'll take a little trip to see where Palmer Lake gets it's water from. It's about about a 30 minute jog from here... Maybe I'll even post pics later.

Phew, it took me about 90 minutes to do the whole loop including both reservoirs and a little peak next to the upper one. The reservoirs are chock full though and the wild flowers were absolutely insane, what I great jog! I'm pretty tired now and I have not downloaded the pics yet. I use picasa, so I don;t know if there's a way to display the photos in this thread like Jossepie, what sharing service I need to use to do that?

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by treedonkey

Phew, it took me about 90 minutes to do the whole loop including both reservoirs and a little peak next to the upper one. The reservoirs are chock full though and the wild flowers were absolutely insane, what I great jog! I'm pretty tired now and I have not downloaded the pics yet. I use picasa, so I don;t know if there's a way to display the photos in this thread like Jossepie, what sharing service I need to use to do that?

I use photobucket.

Are you sure that Palmer Lake only gets their water from Palmer Lake? For example Pueblo stores water at the Pueblo Reservoir but that is only the tip of the ice berg as Pueblo has many more storage faculties and ways to get its water in the mountains.

[jazzlover]

Yeah, Josseppie, it's real "nice" how Aurora, Colorado Springs, and Pueblo cooperate--to dam up irreplaceable river canyons, desertify mountain wetlands, and dry up productive agriculture so brainwashed metropolitan ignoramuses can water their Kentucky Bluegrass lawns. Gee, do you suppose those junkets those agencies sponsor have some propaganda value in helping to perpetrate the lie that those water diversions are "harmless?" Great engineering feats they may be--with price tags to match--but they have probably done more to destroy Colorado's natural heritage--both from the projects themselves and the sprawl they have encouraged--than any other single human activity in the state. And certain people still buy into that "water buffalo" crap--amazing.

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Are you sure that Palmer Lake only gets their water from Palmer Lake? For example Pueblo stores water at the Pueblo Reservoir but that is only the tip of the ice berg as Pueblo has many more storage faculties and ways to get its water in the mountains.

Palmer Lake does not get any of its water from its namesake lake.

However, up in the canyon to the west of town there are two watershed reservoirs controlled by the city. Those lakes are simply known as the upper and lower Palmer Lake reservoirs, and that is where most of our water comes from. Also, we have a well. Of course, it's not like we get to KEEP all the water that the town has within its limits. It's all part of the regional aquifers, and since we're on the divide, cities on BOTH sides get to argue over who gets what and how much. Fun.

Palmer Lake Water Supply

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Yeah, Josseppie, it's real "nice" how Aurora, Colorado Springs, and Pueblo cooperate--to dam up irreplaceable river canyons, desertify mountain wetlands, and dry up productive agriculture so brainwashed metropolitan ignoramuses can water their Kentucky Bluegrass lawns. Gee, do you suppose those junkets those agencies sponsor have some propaganda value in helping to perpetrate the lie that those water diversions are "harmless?" Great engineering feats they may be--with price tags to match--but they have probably done more to destroy Colorado's natural heritage--both from the projects themselves and the sprawl they have encouraged--than any other single human activity in the state. And certain people still buy into that "water buffalo" crap--amazing.

This was a quote I saw and think its perfect here!

Last time I checked, ray-gun growth control is unconstitutional. You may be able to change the form of growth, but you have no legal means to stop it. Deal with it - urban uses are the 'highest and best use" of water, and where there is a demand, it *will* be met, one way or another. Supply and demand, folks. Unless you can convince some farmer that you and everybody else are willing to pay a whole lot more for your food, ag uses will give way to urban needs, wherever those happen to be.

[Teak]

Originally Posted by fnord

The fad of golf courses in the Southwest deserts will be the first to go - and not a day too soon. Grass lawns will be next. The massive dairy operations will cease to exist in the middle of a desert. What's more important: hitting a small ball with a club across acres of heavily irrigated grass or having fresh water to drink and prepare food with?

No need to eliminate golf. Just increase the size of the sand traps, and decrease the size of the greens. And let the fairway be rubble....

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by treedonkey

Palmer Lake does not get any of its water from its namesake lake.

However, up in the canyon to the west of town there are two watershed reservoirs controlled by the city. Those lakes are simply known as the upper and lower Palmer Lake reservoirs, and that is where most of our water comes from. Also, we have a well. Of course, it's not like we get to KEEP all the water that the town has within its limits. It's all part of the regional aquifers, and since we're on the divide, cities on BOTH sides get to argue over who gets what and how much. Fun.

Palmer Lake Water Supply

I am sure Pueblo uses a lot more water then Palmer Lake so we have to have a larger source for our water....

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

This was a quote I saw and think its perfect here!

Last time I checked, ray-gun growth control is unconstitutional. You may be able to change the form of growth, but you have no legal means to stop it. Deal with it - urban uses are the 'highest and best use" of water, and where there is a demand, it *will* be met, one way or another. Supply and demand, folks. Unless you can convince some farmer that you and everybody else are willing to pay a whole lot more for your food, ag uses will give way to urban needs, wherever those happen to be.

Well, you are wrong again, Josseppie. Water is not about supply and demand, it is about politics and power. If pure market forces of supply and demand were the way of Western water, there would be no major water projects to supply water for cities, or much else. They are not economically feasible. Those projects were made possible by a "partnership" of the federal government and local (often municipal) water entities. In other words, massive infusions of federal taxpayer dollars, not to mention the frequent exercise of federal eminent domain powers to gain the lands necessary for water projects. Frequently those projects were built where there was no true practical need, but because of some huge pork-barrel log-rolling in Congress. In fact, the cost/benefit ratio on most federal water projects--especially the ones of the last 30 years--have been completely absurd.

Municipal water buffaloes like Denver, Pueblo, Colorado Springs, Aurora, etc. have frequently argued AGAINST any meaningful conversation because to do so would mean that they would not have to be building the next empire-building project to control more water and more political power. That you, and so many other taxpayers, are so ignorant as to not recognize that "shuck and jive" is pathetic. I recognized that game coming out of the Denver Water Board way back when I was high school. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. You just returned from a politically-motivated junket to brainwash you some more--not like you need it, you're already there--so those water-buffalo political hacks in your home town can count on your support to expropriate some more agricultural water and dry up some more wetlands--rather than tackle the massive waste of water their own customers now practice. Diverting more and more water to municipal use in Colorado is no longer beneficial to either the Colorado economy or environment. Expansion of those diversions needs to be STOPPED, and, in many cases, reversed. We will live to really regret it if we don't.