Colorado and the West is running out of water . . . (Denver: bankruptcy, lawsuits)

[Josseppie]

Then you agree with me one of the main reasons Pueblo has so much power is because we command so much of the senior water rights and projects in the state, most likely more then Denver, Colorado Springs and Aurora!

That being said no one, not even Pueblo, can make the farmers sale their water rights unless they want to. They voted overwhelmingly to let Pueblo buy the shares in the Bessemer ditch and more are going to sale in the near future. My point is this is the market at work, if they wanted to stay they would of they want to move on unless people force them to stay they will move on.

As far as my trip it actually did a lot for me. I have been trying to get over my jealousy of the Springs and enjoy them as a neighbor and this did more to help me reach my goal. I now feel like Pueblo, Colorado Springs and Aurora are in it for the same thing and in order to be the best we can we need to work together. I guess seeing projects that none of the 3 cities could of done on our own yet worked together to develop great projects kind of puts my jealousy in perspective and if Pueblo wants to grow we need them just as much as they need us.

[sterlinggirl]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

That being said no one, not even Pueblo, can make the farmers sale their water rights unless they want to.

That's absolutely untrue.

Cities have bid up the price of water rights to the point where inheritance taxes routinely force the sale of family farms. I've also seen occasions where huge divorce judgements based on the increased value of inherited water shares forced the sale of those shares to satisfy the judgement.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by sterlinggirl

That's absolutely untrue.

Cities have bid up the price of water rights to the point where inheritance taxes routinely force the sale of family farms. I've also seen occasions where huge divorce judgements based on the increased value of inherited water shares forced the sale of those shares to satisfy the judgement.

What percentage? Also how did the cities force that? That is market forces....

[sterlinggirl]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

What percentage? Also how did the cities force that?

What percentage of what?

The cities' insatiable demand for water has forced prices to go up in accordance with the basic law of supply and demand. That much is market forces. The cities don't have to use direct causation to force the sale of water. Indirect causation caused by the cities endless demand is enough to set the ball in motion, and from that point the courts are able to order the sale of assets (including water rights) to satisfy various judgments based upon the value of that water.

I know you'd like to think that you can use 130,000 gallons a month to keep your lawn green without affecting anybody else on the planet, but it just isn't so.

I paid $3 for an avocado the other day because they're in short supply this year. In case you haven't heard, the reason they're so expensive is because water prices in CA got so high that the farmers had to stop watering their trees.

How much cheaper do you think our grocery bills could be if we used water to feed ourselves instead of wasting it to grow grass in the desert?

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by sterlinggirl

What percentage of what?

The cities' insatiable demand for water has forced prices to go up in accordance with the basic law of supply and demand. That much is market forces. The cities don't have to use direct causation to force the sale of water. Indirect causation caused by the cities endless demand is enough to set the ball in motion, and from that point the courts are able to order the sale of assets (including water rights) to satisfy various judgments based upon the value of that water.

I know you'd like to think that you can use 130,000 gallons a month to keep your lawn green without affecting anybody else on the planet, but it just isn't so.

I paid $3 for an avocado the other day because they're in short supply this year. In case you haven't heard, the reason they're so expensive is because water prices in CA got so high that the farmers had to stop watering their trees.

How much cheaper do you think our grocery bills could be if we used water to feed ourselves instead of wasting it to grow grass in the desert?

My question is what percentage of the shares the farmer sale to cities like Pueblo are by court order? For example the Bessemer ditch was all voluntary and no court order in fact they all had to vote to agree and they did. So I would be willing to bet that yes some shares are sold by court order most are sold because the farmer wants to. So unless you want to force the farmer not to sale he will sale!

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

As far as my trip it actually did a lot for me. I have been trying to get over my jealousy of the Springs and enjoy them as a neighbor and this did more to help me reach my goal. I now feel like Pueblo, Colorado Springs and Aurora are in it for the same thing and in order to be the best we can we need to work together. I guess seeing projects that none of the 3 cities could of done on our own yet worked together to develop great projects kind of puts my jealousy in perspective and if Pueblo wants to grow we need them just as much as they need us.

Yes, Josseppie, Aurora, Colorado Springs, and Pueblo do cooperate with one another on some water issues--namely working together to de-water more Colorado agricultural land, dry up mountain wetlands, and divert more water from the Western Slope to the Eastern Slope. Yes, they do cooperate--in activities that are reprehensible, damaging, and downright evil to the long-term welfare of this state. I find their activities despicable--and the people that support them equally so.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Yes, Josseppie, Aurora, Colorado Springs, and Pueblo do cooperate with one another on some water issues--namely working together to de-water more Colorado agricultural land, dry up mountain wetlands, and divert more water from the Western Slope to the Eastern Slope. Yes, they do cooperate--in activities that are reprehensible, damaging, and downright evil to the long-term welfare of this state. I find their activities despicable--and the people that support them equally so.

I disagree, I think the massive projects the major cities in the state (Pueblo - Colorado Springs - Aurora - Denver) are working on will only help the state become a major economic power house in the United States especially the front range from Pueblo to Fort Collins. That will create more prosperity for everyone in the state including the farmers who wish to continue to farm as they will have more local people to feed and will get more money for their crops and the farmers who decide farming is no longer for them will get more money for their land and water. In the end the state should be thanking cities like Pueblo because of us our state has a bright future and I think that is why Pueblo has so much power when on paper we should not!

[sterlinggirl]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

That will create more prosperity for everyone in the state including the farmers who wish to continue to farm as they will have more local people to feed and will get more money for their crops

If farmers get more money for their crops, those prices will be passed to the rest of us. How do we all prosper if food prices increase?

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by sterlinggirl

If farmers get more money for their crops, those prices will be passed to the rest of us. How do we all prosper if food prices increase?

Simple everyone in the state will be making more money so we will be able to afford higher food prices. Think of it as the pie not being cut into more slices but getting larger. Also, there will be more people living here so the farmers will have a larger market to serve thus they will make more money.

[yodi]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Simple everyone in the state will be making more money so we will be able to afford higher food prices. Think of it as the pie not being cut into more slices but getting larger. Also, there will be more people living here so the farmers will have a larger market to serve thus they will make more money.

How is Colorado's limited supply of water going to support more and more people in the cities and at the same time still provide enough water for farms so that they can continue to farm and produce crops? You do realize that farming requires water, right? What makes you think that "everyone in the state will be making more money"?