Colorado and the West is running out of water . . . (Denver: landscaping, to live)

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Anything could happen but it is so unlikely to happen that on my latest trip with the Pueblo Board of water works they don't even mention it as something they look out for when they do long term plaining for Pueblo's water.

That's just it. No one plans for what economic forecasters refer to as "black swan" events, which are sudden, unplanned, unexpected things that just happen and have a way of causing major game-changing impacts or outright disasters. Court cases can be brought at anytime, out of the blue, and the outcome of them is in doubt until the gavel falls. Congress can change the game at any time too. Natural disasters might crumble a few dams and wash away long-standing status quo happiness.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

That's just it. No one plans for what economic forecasters refer to as "black swan" events, which are sudden, unplanned, unexpected things that just happen and have a way of causing major game-changing impacts or outright disasters. Court cases can be brought at anytime, out of the blue, and the outcome of them is in doubt until the gavel falls. Congress can change the game at any time too. Natural disasters might crumble a few dams and wash away long-standing status quo happiness.

That is true but some events are so unlikely that there is no particle way to plan it. I could cut my use of water in half or I could double my water usage and Pueblo would not be ready if they changed water laws so it would make us give our extra water to another city. In fact my higher usage might actually help Pueblo as it would look like Pueblo needs more water so if they only took the unused water that would be less then if I was conserving.

Either way I just don't see it happening.

[coloradoadvisors]

I would like to sell my water rights to the city of Denver how would I go about that

[jimhcom]

The water problems are not unsolvable, they just need to be dealt with on a national scale and given the attention and resources that they really deserve. The entire country needs a grid of pipelines built on the same concept as the electric grid. There are places in this country that at any given time have too much water and could use help getting rid of it. Flooding is one of the countries biggest problems. Water has always been more of a political problem than one of engineering. There is not, and never has been, a shortage of water in North America, only a shortage of infrastructure to manage it.

[zenkonami]

It kind of is an infrastructure problem. Water is heavy stuff and takes a lot of energy to move. Gravity does most of the work and then we can capture or limit downstream flow by use of dams. The problem with Colorado is that you'd have to move all that water from elsewhere uphill. In addition, you're dealing with vast distances from which you might access that water (Mississippi River Valley, maybe? I don't know what kind of condition that region is in.) You'd have to pump that water up across the (might I add, dry) Great Plains to get water to Colorado. I would think plenty of places in between would want a shot at that water, as well. In fact, Colorado, being the source and headwaters of several rivers, may be last in line to get that water. Also, what effect would that have on the ecosystems of the source waters that may rely on regular flooding?

Such a process would be politically troublesome due to the laws and needs of "origin" States and "intermediate" States between Colorado and this water (just consider the political problems of Colorado Compact allocating water downstream), but the amount of energy, pipe or canal work, etc...would just be monumental. The simpler solution is that Coloradans make changes to conserve water and much as I, someone who wants very badly to live in Colorado, hate to say it, discourage people from overpopulating the State relative to it's available resources to sustain a population. Jazzlover would argue (in fact has argued I believe) that CO is already beyond it's means. I'm slightly more optimistic, but he's worked and lived in CO for a long time and he may well be right.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by jimhcom

The water problems are not unsolvable, they just need to be dealt with on a national scale and given the attention and resources that they really deserve. The entire country needs a grid of pipelines built on the same concept as the electric grid. There are places in this country that at any given time have too much water and could use help getting rid of it. Flooding is one of the countries biggest problems. Water has always been more of a political problem than one of engineering. There is not, and never has been, a shortage of water in North America, only a shortage of infrastructure to manage it.

This is one of those Pollyanna wishes with no ground in reality. Set aside the massive environmental issues a program like this would cause--we are only now beginning to see some of the unpleasant consequences from reservoirs and water diversions done 50-100 years ago--the financial cost of building such a system would be beyond comprehension. With a country that can not even maintain its existing infrastructure, the idea of building--then operating and maintaining such a massive enterprise is beyond silly--it's ridiculous.

The kind of thinking exhibited by jimhcom is, unfortunately, very common--and very dangerous. It implies that we do not have to confront some very real limitations in natural resources, supportable populations, and what we can afford as a society--in this state, in this country, and in this world. Such talk gives people false comfort that there is "something" out there to save us from having to make some hard decisions and to make some significant sacrifices if we are to be able to continue to live in anything near the manner to which we are now accustomed. Some things, as neat an engineering exercise as one might contemplate them to be, simply are not practical. This is a great example of one of them. Yes, nearly anything might be possible with unlimited time, unlimited wealth, and unlimited resources. In case anyone hasn't noticed, though (and apparently a lot of people haven't), this country no longer has the luxury of a surplus--or even enough--of any of those things now. People need to get real about what is practical and/or possible.

[james57]

I live in Illinois and I can tell you guys right now. COLORADO WILL NEVER EVER GET ANY WATER FROM THE GREAT LAKES. POLITICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. WE HAVE THE CLOUT NOT YOU GUYS!!!

Note this comes from the home state of President Obama. You can also add in the country of Canada that will not allow this to happen. After all, they own part of the Great Lakes also.

[Josseppie]

We dont want you water!

[AppGal330]

[quote=JCFLIGHTS;806263]Ok so i read your Post about the water issues in Colorado....
Tell me why are you so worried about this? The reason I ask is because in places like New York City,With over 8.2 million residents within an area of 322 square miles New York City has the highest population density of any major North American city in the US, Yet things work just fine.. ...

ummmm yea they have plenty of water in NYC because they pipe it in from reservoirs that are UPSTATE...as in Highland Falls...just an FYI

[Idunn]

In this technological age a lesson most people seemingly have yet to learn is: just because one can do something doesn't necessarily mean they should.

I was recently in Mesquite, NV, by a large, lovely swimming pool of all places. Given the hot temperatures it was perfectly pleasant under the palms and other shade trees. In serendipity I happened to talk to a fellow from nearby St. George, UT, and in curiosity asked after their source of water there. One may be the Virgin River, with its headwaters in nearby Zion National Park. But anyone who has seen this river would know it couldn't answer for much. His understanding was that St. George tapped an underground aquifer, with a major portion of water coming from the Colorado River.

This river also the major source of water for Las Vegas, NV, although now Lake Mead, held behind Hoover Dam, is down by about half. With little prospect of refilling anytime soon, and the same story for Lake Powell upriver on the far side of the Grand Canyon. Las Vegas has its eyes on northern Nevada, wishing to divert what water there is there, itself more lush only in relation to a very dry southern Nevada. This may happen because Las Vegas and Clark County have the population and political clout, but the ranchers and few citizens of northern Nevada know all too well what it would mean. Something akin to the Owens Valley of California that lost its water to Los Angeles in, I believe, the 1920's. Such a thing wouldn't just affect humans of course, but also every other living thing that calls the region home.

Other examples of such things are easy enough to find. The Sacramento Delta that lies between there and San Francisco, CA has been affected by large diversions of water for farming in results such as land subsistence and salt water intrusion.

The point being that there is always a consequence. Not that some areas plainly have too much water, others obviously very little, and in the exchange there might even in whole be benefits. But surely a difference, and all too often the change detrimental to someone or something else, with those taking careless in what they do.

It might also be pointed out that precisely because of what we, mankind, are doing it a near certain fact that in near future some areas all the wetter, more severely than they'll ever like, with others even drier. This even as we demand more of everything. Of the Colorado river for one thing, which is already over spoken for, its apportionment done in an unusually wet period, thus over optimistically. Not to mention its flow is decreasing, and will further.

A relatively short distance northeast of Las Vegas there is a new suburban development out in the desert in the middle of nowhere. A somewhat surreal sight with not a house yet in view, but a large enough sign flanked by large palm trees, advertising, as if it needed it, their newly installed and very green golf course. Lush green grass on one side of the narrow asphalt ribbon of a road, and on the other the more customary dry brown soil and sparse, small, wiry native plants, but mostly just dirt, as far as one might care to gaze into the horizon.

The American dream, I suppose, to enjoy the blue sky and advantages of a desert, tempered with every modern amenity technology and imagination can provide. It is plainly possible. Personally, I find triple digit temperatures rather pleasant when poolside, cosseted in luxuries that cannot and do not exist but a few feet beyond, on the far side of the fence, in the desert. We as humans would be a poor species otherwise, for beyond what we can think we do not possess the natural abilities of survival every other bird and living thing take for granted. So perhaps ironic that we take such a gift for granted, so often despoiling the very basis of that we value and indeed require to exist.

I would see that lovely pool I enjoyed continue. If too many more join it, quite likely none will. More the pity, as we might easily choose otherwise.