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11-03-2009, 03:19 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
527 posts, read 462,366 times
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Sustenance
It is true that the grain fed cattle in feedlots is not healthy for them and makes them sicker and sicker. Their stay there is timed so their slaughter occurs at their fattest, and sickest, just before most would have died from such abuse. This is what you eat.
By the late 1800's there remained about 1,000 buffalo in America due the near genocide practiced upon them by the white man. This from a historical level of some 60,000,000. There are some 300,000 now on farms, ranches and in the wild, in such places as Yellowstone National Park. [1] Historically none ever saw the inside of a feedlot, and yet survived just fine. They are more adept than cattle in survival in much of this climate. My understanding that they tend to disturb and pollute water courses less than cattle.
Stretching from Canada to Mexico, the Ogallala Aquifer is one of the largest in the world, having been termed the sixth 'Great Lake' of North America. There are about 200,000 wells withdrawing water from this aquifer at about 10 to 50 times more than natural recharge rates. An immense aquifer once thought boundless was understood by the 1980s to have limits. In some areas the water table has dropped 100 to 200 feet, and water quality has increasingly been impacted. Current practices are not sustainable. Moreover if continued will not only deplete the water but damage the geologic structure that contains it. [2]
There is a new movie showing soon, 'Food, Inc.,' which might put a lot of this in a different perspective. [3]
1) History of The American Buffalo
History Buffalo
2) The High Plains Aquifer
The High Plains Aquifer
3) Food, Inc.
Official Food, Inc. Movie Site - Hungry For Change?
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11-03-2009, 03:29 PM
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Charter Member - Moderator
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Join Date: Mar 2006
8,551 posts, read 5,691,100 times
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The movie Food, Inc has been out for a while, we saw it 3 months ago on 7-31-09. Good movie.
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11-10-2009, 10:17 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
635 posts, read 370,858 times
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Reservoir under construction south of Denver, but there's no water to hold - The Denver Post
Quote:
If water can't be imported to the reservoir, an estimated 190,000 Front Range residents who currently rely on groundwater face an uncertain future, as water tables are dropping 30 feet a year.
Douglas County communities "need to wean themselves off groundwater because it is finite.
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11-10-2009, 03:52 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
527 posts, read 462,366 times
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Rueter-Hess reservoir
Quote:
Critics "can make their claims," but the reservoir will be crucial to sustain population growth," Jaeger said.
- excerpted from 'The Denver Post'
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Thank you for a quite relevant article. And, might I add, a perfect example of insanity (on the developers part). So we have a huge reservoir which was originally slated to store recycled water and runoff from Cherry Creek in overly wet years. Something which has now morphed into a large Ponzi scheme, with guys such as Jaeger saying it must be built to allow for more population, with more population needed to help pay for it all. Mr. Jaeger also adds that population must continue to grow or the whole state economy will collapse. In how many ways is that not sustainable?
Mr. Kuhn points out that with financing based on tap fees from anticipated housing construction, this indeed a speculative Ponzi scheme. Yet also mentioned in this article that 190,000 current residents are potentially affected with water tables dropping 30 feet a year. This last figure seems astronomical. They do add however that wells as deep as 2,745 feet are producing less than a few years ago.
If one drives past the many manicured lawns of Ft. Collins, CO, just to the west of town they will discover the level of Horsetooth reservoir way down. It tends to be this time of year, with the level this last spring actually rather high. Although I wonder if the recent numerous toxic asphalt spills into the Poudre river might have anything to do with this reservoir's current level. While this water system is surely separate from Denver's, it is nevertheless indicative. Chances are there are just as many verdant lawns in the affected areas of Denver, with just as much disinclination to forsake them. Just as much heedless growth. AND, just as much reliance on Mother Nature and the weather, with reliable projections due climate change being less and less water available for everyone.
Some of the proposed water sources to fill the Rueter-Hess reservoir would be Wyoming or the Western Slope of Colorado. This ignoring the fact that the citizens of Wyoming probably not too keen on this, or the waters of the Colorado river are already over-spoken for and that the population of the Western Slope is expected an insane tripling by 2050. So the question of just what water? Not to mention that if from the Western Slope that they probably intend to ship much of it via the Alva B. Adams diversion tunnel under Rocky Mountain NP. This will only add to the unnatural flow of water down the Big Thompson river, making it that much less a wild river and that much more a ditch.
One might, and I'm sure many do, care less. But when it comes to the quality of what comes out of the kitchen faucet, and the cost of it, they will. As Rod Kuharich, director of the 13-member South Metro Water Supply Authority, puts it: "All the providers recognize the cost of water is going to be significantly more." That is just simple mathematics, we are using more and more of a resource that is actually dwindling in total amount.
Personally, I find the many lawns in Ft. Collins rather attractive. It is also not lost on me how much water they consume, now how much water the average household uses and wastes. And that doesn't even factor in the much greater demands of agriculture, sadly being eclipsed there and elsewhere. The thing is that everyone in Ft. Collins, Denver and elsewhere really could have lawns and basically all the water they might want, but only in measure and at a certain size and level.
This is something no one is going to grow their way out of.
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11-10-2009, 04:26 PM
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Curmudgeonly Colo. native
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Join Date: Mar 2007
3,438 posts, read 3,487,175 times
Reputation: 2388
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Idunn, your post is spot on. Sooner or later the people of Colorado have GOT to wake up and recognize that population growth is not our economic salvation, but our economic AND environmental ruin. The simple fact is that the morons who continually push more development do so out of pure greed--they usually have a direct pecuniary gain from the destruction. Those slimeball developers continually promote more ridiculous water projects (to be paid for at taxpayer expense) because they realize that their private gravy train relies on continually subdividing (wrecking) more land and building more crap. They are like sharks--if they quit devouring land, they die. What is pathetic is that they own the Colorado political establishment and have bent it around to serve THEIR needs, not what is good for the state. Those developers, and the political hacks they support, need to be sent packing. We don't need them. It is a Ponzi scheme--and like all Ponzi schemes--it will end very badly.
Science fiction writer Isaac Asimov's "bathroom analogy" is very appropo here--it explains what happens when growth goes out of control in an environment of limited resources:
Quote:
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In response to this question by Bill Moyers: What do you see happening to the idea of dignity to human species if this population growth continues at its present rate?] "It's going to destroy it all. I use what I call my bathroom metaphor. If two people live in an apartment, and there are two bathrooms, then both have what I call freedom of the bathroom, go to the bathroom any time you want, and stay as long as you want to for whatever you need. And this to my way is ideal. And everyone believes in the freedom of the bathroom. It should be right there in the Constitution. But if you have 20 people in the apartment and two bathrooms, no matter how much every person believes in freedom of the bathroom, there is no such thing. You have to set up, you have to set up times for each person, you have to bang at the door, aren't you through yet, and so on. And in the same way, democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you put more and more people onto the world, the value of life not only declines, but it disappears. It doesn't matter if someone dies."
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11-12-2009, 09:39 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Aug 2006
51 posts, read 15,429 times
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What impact does annual snowfall have on the water issue? I ask because the area where I own property (Sangre de Cristos) has experienced more snow than usual this year (44 inches just last month) and more snowfall than usual during 3 of the past 4 years.
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11-12-2009, 12:14 PM
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Curmudgeonly Colo. native
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Join Date: Mar 2007
3,438 posts, read 3,487,175 times
Reputation: 2388
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Colorado's primary source of water is winter snowpack. Early winter season snow is important, but not as critical as the late winter and spring snows that are much more moisture-laden. We have--in some parts of Colorado--had a couple of years of above-average snowpack. That comes after a relatively severe multi-year drought. There is considerable dissension among climatologists as to whether we are in just a temporary respite from a long-term drought cycle, or if the climate pattern is tending toward a wetter regime. I tend to agree with the former, based on what I know.
All of that said, Colorado and the West still faces the very severe problem that most of the water that rises in Colorado is already fully appropriated--even based on "normal" precipitation patterns. We no longer have much, if any cushion available for a protracted drought. There are many experts who now believe that the excessive demands placed on Colorado's water resources, especially from the Lower Basin states in the Colorado River drainage, have reached the point that reservoirs like Lake Powell and Lake Mead may NEVER refill again. That is really frightening.
Meanwhile, we keep mining "ancient" water in the Denver Basin Aquifer to sustain growth in Douglas County. That's like withdrawing money from a savings account and never putting any back. Eventually, you go broke and starve. Except, in the case of the aquifer, EVERYBODY who relies on it gets to starve with you.
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11-12-2009, 12:25 PM
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Senior Member
Status:
"Happy Thanksgiving"
(set 7 days ago)
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
2,765 posts, read 1,475,126 times
Reputation: 308
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$300 million Arkansas Valley Conduit project to be launched Friday
This should be good news for the economy of southern Colorado. Here is the article from the Chieftain:
The Arkansas Valley Conduit will deliver a fresh drinking water supply from Pueblo Dam to up to 42 communities serving 50,000 people. It will stretch from Pueblo Dam to Lamar, about 140 miles.
The link: http://www.chieftain.com/articles/2009/11/12/news/local/doc4afba2b156cbd923433943.txt
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11-20-2009, 03:02 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
527 posts, read 462,366 times
Reputation: 302
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Ice cores
"I think if you ask anyone with a climate model can this happen they would say no way the climate system can behave like that, but we see it in the ice cores."
- D. Jenson
She is referring to a change of 20ºF in two years. Whether you agree or not, you may find this video interesting. It details an ongoing project in Greenland that has already drilled one mile down, with the goal of reaching 1.6 miles, to reach ice 130,000 years old. These ice cores are similar to tree rings in revealing the Earth's climate history. 130,000 years ago the Earth was actually 9 degrees warmer than today, before entering another ice age:
msnbc.com Video Player
Mankind had nothing to do with that, but a great deal to do with what is transpiring now. It may be ice in Greenland, but it directly reflects how much water Colorado may have next year, and in the future.
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11-24-2009, 01:50 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
256 posts, read 28,926 times
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I heard yesterday on CSPAN a panel discussion of water in the west and one of the panelists stated that 50% of the water in LA goes to watering lawns. 50%!
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