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Old 02-27-2010, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,368,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
So, I guess the person I know in Cheyenne who was intimately involved with Wal-Mart's decision to locate there was "full of it" when he told me what some of Wal-Mart's decision was based upon, huh, Josseppie? Once again, you love to talk about what some outfit "may do," "could do," "might do"--well, that distribution center IS sitting in Cheyenne, not Pueblo, isn't it? Not "might happen," "could happen," "may happen"--in Cheyenne it DID happen. Oh, and people in Wyoming can spell--that might be a plus for a prospective employer.
I can't say what he said or did not say all I know was Wal-Mart said they wanted to move to Pueblo West however where they wanted to go the local residents of the suburb did not want such a large building. Pueblo said they could move to the industrial park and they would "give them what they wanted" and Wal-Mart choose to pick Cheyenne because they could not get their first choice in Pueblo. They silll need a DC in the Pueblo area so when the time comes again I here next time they will look at the industrial park by the airport.
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,368,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
I'd also point out that not only did WalMart build their new million square feet warehouse/distribution center here in Cheyenne, but part of the development was to build a new major industrial park around it. So the infrastructure, along with heavy utilities and municipal water/sewer, appropriate zoning, is already in place and seeking new tenants at this time. They even built a new I-80 interchange to accomodate the complex.

Additionally, Lowe's also built a million square foot warehouse/distribution center here in Cheyenne a few years before the WalMart center. This is in an industrial site on the East side of Cheyenne, and there's also been an industrial park expansion adjacent to them. We've had a new hotel, new John Deere dealership, Caterpillar dealership, and a number of other businesses recently build in there and join that location. Excellent access to I-80 (and rail service) directly from the complex.

And yet, there's a new industrial complex being built from scratch right now on the South side of Cheyenne, complete with a brand new I-25 interchange. Dirt work has been in progress for a couple of months, and the anticipated infrastructure build-out is forecast to take place over the next couple of years. My understanding is that a new facility for building wind generators is the anchor tenant for the project, and the talk among several trades in town ... especially welders ... is that this will be a new major jobs player in the Cheyenne area.

Again, Cheyenne LEADS is a great contact for the information about these industrial parks and the opportunities there.

Another location which might work for a 100 employee plant is the frontage road areas along I-25 on the East side of town. They are served by municipal utilities, rail service, and excellent access to I-25. A number of manufacturers or warehouse facilities have established themselves in this corridor, including a new Peterbilt truck franchise, the existing gravel/rock operations, a steel distributor, and operations such as a Sierra Trading Post (a major retailer of clothing and sporting goods ... catalogue and retail store, warehouses complex). Close by are some additional industrial sites which are available for build to suit operations, as well as some of the truck line freight terminals.

One significant advantage of Cheyenne is that it's a modest sized city of about 50,000 people. Access from the surrounding county residential areas as well as the core housing districts of Cheyenne is a matter of minutes away in most conditions. "rush Hour" traffic here is virtually non-existent, and you can typically commute from one end of Cheyenne to the other in about 10 minutes. We simply don't have the traffic densities that one associates with cities along the Front Range of Colorado, and we don't have traffic reporters on the radio stations here advising about accidents/back-ups and traffic delays every AM and PM ... because there aren't those types of problems here. Even with Frontier Days being a major tourist draw for two weeks in the summer, the traffic isn't a problem.
All the same can be said for Pueblo, we are only 110,000 people, and because of Vesta's we have a new industrial park that would be perfect for any manufacturing company looking to relocate.

Plus since we are 110,000 people with a msa of 160,000 we have resources and amentias that Cheyenne does not come close to having without the haste of being in a large city.

Last edited by Josseppie; 02-27-2010 at 12:25 AM..
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:08 AM
 
10,875 posts, read 41,221,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
All the same can be said for Pueblo, we are only 110,000 people, and because of Vesta's we have a new industrial park that would be perfect for any manufacturing company looking to relocate.

Plus since we are 110,000 people with a msa of 160,000 we have resources and amentias that Cheyenne does not come close to having without the haste of being in a large city.
Colorado still has a higher tax load upon the business operations and personal incomes than Wyoming.

The industrial park at the airport which is East of Pueblo is hardly a location that you'd call readily accessible compared to the two or three minute access of the Cheyenne industrial parks to the interstate highways.

I'd put the local Cheyenne school districts up against anything Pueblo has, which is a huge asset when you're an employer seeking families to locate to your area.

Pueblo might seem to be without the haste of a large city compared to Denver or CSprings, but compared to Cheyenne ... it's a big sprawling city and I've been through there many times when I-25 was a crawl at "rush hour", or along the West side corridor in traffic. We simply don't have that traffic congestion in Cheyenne.

I'm unaware of any consumer amenities that Pueblo has over Cheyenne. I can shop for the same goods in either location, and have a wide range of outdoor activities to enjoy here. Pueblo does have the reservoir on the West side for boating activities, but that's not a deal breaker when there's so many other recreational trade-offs for employees to enjoy.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Pueblo, but fabrications and misrepresentations about what it's got to offer compared to other locations in the region isn't going to hold much sway with informed businesses. Pueblo was a one-business town for many years, and for varied reasons didn't attract or retain the growth of so much of the region over the last 60 years. There's a lot more square footage of industry in CSprings or Denver or Fort Collins in Colorado than ever got attracted to Pueblo. With the access of the interstates and low taxes, Cheyenne (and Laramie) have become competitive locations, too.

Cheyenne was also chosen as the site for the newest supercomputing center as well as the new supercollider center. There's going to be an influx of new technology, new high tech jobs, and new support jobs/services with that development here. We welcome that growth, and it certainly reflects favorably upon Cheyenne to have been selected for these large projects. Others have apparently looked at Cheyenne's amenities, quality of life concerns for attracting and retaining new employees, and other resources and chosen it over other Front Range locations. We don't have to play games about conjecturing what somebody said or didn't about those decisions ... the project award decisions speak for themselves.
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,368,837 times
Reputation: 4132
You are right Pueblo does have a industrial park located east of town by the airport where many companies have locate because it as direct access to highway 50 and rail lines. There is, also, a new power plant being planed north of there that will ganentee Pueblo has enough power. However, that is not the industrial park I was referring to where Vesta's moved to and Helios could build a plant, that one is south of town. Look at this article from the Colorado Springs gazette about it (I use the gazette because they are not as biased as our local paper, the Pueblo Chieftain)

"Even though it would have been nice to attract this company into our region, the reality is we just don't have any rail sites. We don't have the kind of heavy industrial capabilities the city of Pueblo has," White said.

The link: http://www.gazette.com/articles/vestas-39640-turbine-pueblo.html

I am sure the Cheyenne school districts are good but Pueblo has a mix a private and public high schools that I am sure would compare fine. Plus Pueblo is home to Pueblo Community College where they are doing a lot of the training for the workforce at Vesta's, one reason we got Vesta's to move here was because they liked PCC and how they could trane their employees. Plus Pueblo is home to CSU Pueblo, Colorado's fastest growing university.

As far as Pueblo traffic, I have rarely seen "rush hour" at a crawl. If it is that is because of a major accident or road construction. In fact I can be anywhere in town in less then 15 minutes. So while I grant you Pueblo is a much larger city then Cheyenne to say that we have traffic issues is not true.

One thing Pueblo does have is a great urban area. In fact Pueblo has the second largest urban area in the state. Here are some picture I took of the urban area a while ago for a post:

First this is the Riverwalk in downtown. I took these pictures at night. If you look the building is the corporate headquarters of the Professional Bull Riders (PBR).



This is Memorial Hall where many Broadway shows play here. In fact I am going to see Avenue Q in March.





Pueblo is unique in Colorado that we started as 3 separate towns (Pueblo, South Pueblo, Bessemer) and each town had their own downtown. They grew together and was connected by trolley lines. In fact South Pueblo was the junction of all the lines and to this day that area is called "the Junction" although most Puebloans do not know why. Because of this Pueblo has a rather large urban area in fact I would not be surprised if our urban area was larger then Colorado Springs and Fort Collins urban area combined. I could be wrong but from being in both cities and seeing their urban area that is my opinion.

Consolidation and boom

This is such a important part of Pueblo's history it has a separate chapter in the book and I will copy a few paragraphs from the start of the chapter so you guys can see how important this was:

"1886 saw the consolidation of the 3 Pueblos. A Chieftain newspaper article summed up the local sentiment by stating that while support for consolidation was "not as wide as a river nor as deep as a well" it would do. For most citizens, consolidation represented prosperity. Some saw the potential increase in real estate; others saw the second largest city in the state becoming the largest."

In fact Pueblo continued to boom till the flood of 1921 then it took decades for Pueblo to fully recover and then Pueblo boomed after world war 2 till the economic collapse of the 1980 and again it has taken about 20 years for Pueblo to recover. That is why I believe Pueblo is now ready for a 3rd boom and hopefully this time nothing will interrupt it so Pueblo can finally become what they thought it would be in 1886, the states largest city. As they say third time is the charm, I am hoping so!























This area is known as Bessemer. It was called Bessemer because it is located and started by the steel mill and Bessemer is the name of a process to make steel.

This is from WIki:

Sir Henry Bessemer (January 19, 1813 – March 15, 1898) was an English engineer and inventor. Bessemer's name is chiefly known in connection with the Bessemer process for the manufacture of steel.

















This is the area of town called the junction located just west of downtown Pueblo.

Pueblo has a few more areas as well, the historic neighborhood north of downtown that was rated as the best historic neighborhood in the state and the top 50 in the country. One east of downtown that is kind of like east Colefax in Denver and south east of downtown that runs in the suburbs or as we call it "the mesa"

I know this was a lot of pictures but I wanted to give everyone a feel for both areas. Obviously I was not able to take all the important buildings. Pueblo, also, has great suburbs and residential areas I just wanted to focus on our urban area here as that is one of Pueblo's strengths.

Pueblo has a lot of local shops in the historic Union Ave in downtown that people from Colorado Springs come down to shop at. Pueblo, also, has the largest mall south of Colorado Springs and a growing shopping area north of town as Pueblo is a shopping and economic hub for a 20 county region. Even during this recession Pueblo lost few retail stores because of that. Plus if you can't find it here then you do have the Springs just 30 minutes to the north where I am sure you could.

I have enthusiasm for Pueblo but it is based on Pueblo potential as we are one of the only steel cities to be growing again after the steel industry collapse of the 1980's. That is due to PEDCo and the fact Pueblo is a pro business town with a 1/2 cent sales tax so we can offer incentives plus our location and how that attracts major manufacturing companies like Vesta's and possibly Helios and the Colorado Energy park, which could be the largest of its kind in the United States.

Last edited by Josseppie; 02-27-2010 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:37 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,125,069 times
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I don't think the OP was looking for a "How Great Pueblo Is" thread, but--as you so frequently, incessantly, and very irritatingly do--that is what you turned it into, Josseppie. Now, I've posted this before, but since you continue to never-endingly paint a one-side picture of Pueblo, I have to provide some counterpoint. Make no mistake, there are numerous things that I actually do like about Pueblo, but the place has some serious issues that you continually gloss over.

First, the schools in Pueblo are NOT first-rate--in fact, they are far from it. Empirical data backs this up, but the numerous ex-Pueblans I know back it up, as well. In fact, that is cited by them as a major reason that they relocated to elsewhere from Pueblo. One of those individuals I know was a first-rate educator in the Pueblo school system, who finally left the schools and Pueblo in disgust. His telling comment, more harsh than any of mine, is that he only goes back to Pueblo to visit some elderly family members and that "when they're gone, I won't go back there at all."

Second, Pueblo has serious crime issues, and has had for quite some time. It consistently has rated as one of Colorado's worst cities for crime rates--if it is improving any compared to other Colorado locales, it is because they are getting worse, not because Pueblo is getting better. There are parts of Pueblo that are every bit as dangerous as the worst parts of Denver, not saying much for a city that less than a quarter of the population of Denver.

So, if you really want Pueblo to be the attractive place you propagandize it to be on this forum, maybe you should quit yapping that half-true hype here and go to work in your community to fix the two major problems I outlined here.

By the way, for purposes of comparison, the schools in Cheyenne are quite well-rated, and Cheyenne has a very low incidence of crime. Considering that Cheyenne is located at the intersection of two major Interstate Highways, and along one of the busiest rail corridors in the country, that is actually somewhat surprising, but it is a fact. As an aside to that, one of my co-workers when I lived in Wyoming was a Pueblo fourth generation native. She and her husband, also a native Pueblan, gleefully accepted a transfer to Cheyenne--mainly so that their children could grow up with Wyoming's good educational system and low community crime rate.
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Old 02-27-2010, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,368,837 times
Reputation: 4132
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
I don't think the OP was looking for a "How Great Pueblo Is" thread, but--as you so frequently, incessantly, and very irritatingly do--that is what you turned it into, Josseppie. Now, I've posted this before, but since you continue to never-endingly paint a one-side picture of Pueblo, I have to provide some counterpoint. Make no mistake, there are numerous things that I actually do like about Pueblo, but the place has some serious issues that you continually gloss over.

First, the schools in Pueblo are NOT first-rate--in fact, they are far from it. Empirical data backs this up, but the numerous ex-Pueblans I know back it up, as well. In fact, that is cited by them as a major reason that they relocated to elsewhere from Pueblo. One of those individuals I know was a first-rate educator in the Pueblo school system, who finally left the schools and Pueblo in disgust. His telling comment, more harsh than any of mine, is that he only goes back to Pueblo to visit some elderly family members and that "when they're gone, I won't go back there at all."

Second, Pueblo has serious crime issues, and has had for quite some time. It consistently has rated as one of Colorado's worst cities for crime rates--if it is improving any compared to other Colorado locales, it is because they are getting worse, not because Pueblo is getting better. There are parts of Pueblo that are every bit as dangerous as the worst parts of Denver, not saying much for a city that less than a quarter of the population of Denver.

So, if you really want Pueblo to be the attractive place you propagandize it to be on this forum, maybe you should quit yapping that half-true hype here and go to work in your community to fix the two major problems I outlined here.

By the way, for purposes of comparison, the schools in Cheyenne are quite well-rated, and Cheyenne has a very low incidence of crime. Considering that Cheyenne is located at the intersection of two major Interstate Highways, and along one of the busiest rail corridors in the country, that is actually somewhat surprising, but it is a fact. As an aside to that, one of my co-workers when I lived in Wyoming was a Pueblo fourth generation native. She and her husband, also a native Pueblan, gleefully accepted a transfer to Cheyenne--mainly so that their children could grow up with Wyoming's good educational system and low community crime rate.
The OP asked our opinion on the best place for the company to locate and IMO that is Pueblo and I have no issue talking about it.

Pueblo schools are fine in fact I am a 4th generaton Puebloan and went to Central, class of 1991, and I went on to get my MBA from the University of San Diego. Pueblo, also, has a great college system, from PCC to CSU - Pueblo, that is growing and adding programs all the time. In fact I would say that CSU Pueblo is the bright spot in Colorado's higher education system as they have come from a joke to the fastest growing university in the state in less then 10 years.

Pueblo does not have a crime issue. In fact if you look at the crime data compared to the country Pueblo is one of the safest cities to live in.

Pueblo, also, has a transportation network that is comparable to Denver and better then the other major cities in the state. We have rail lines as well as Intersate 25 and highway 50, that is the only true trans-continental highway in Colorado, and a airport with service to DIA plus only about a 30 minute drive to the airport in Colorado Springs.

I know I am a booster of Pueblo but I am one because I believe Pueblo is a great place to live, work, and play. I think this company would find that Pueblo would do all it could to make them feel welcome and would be a like being part of a this growing city.
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Old 02-27-2010, 02:30 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,125,069 times
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Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Pueblo does not have a crime issue. In fact if you look at the crime data compared to the country Pueblo is one of the safest cities to live in.
All I can say is that the crime statistics that C-D posts right here on their website refutes that claim. If you're going to misrepresent facts, you might have enough initiative not to misrepresent ones that anyone can look up with a couple of clicks right on the website on which you post. Kinda tends to shoot your credibility all to hell when you talk about anything else.

As a comparison, the C-D crime index for 2006 (the last year ranked by C-D) showed an index of 199.1 (the lower the number, the less crime per capita) for the 101st safest city over 50,000 in the US (C-D ranked the top 101 cities). Pueblo's crime index for 2006 (and it got worse in 2007): 471.6 . Hardly a glowing statistic--mediocre, at best. Well, actually the national average ranking was 320.9, so Pueblo was worse than mediocre.

Another relocation website compares cities to the national average for per capita crime rates using 2003 stats. That site reports that Pueblo's violent crime rate per capita was 1.31 times the national average for 2003; and the property crime rate per capita was 1.21 times the national average for 2003. That site (and C-D, as well, I believe) use the FBI crime stats upon which they base what they report.

Oh, and Cheyenne's rating from C-D for the same year (2006): 273.5 . And that other site's 2003 report of Cheyenne's crime stats: Violent crime 0.34 times that national average per capita; property crime 1.04 times the national average per capita.

I would sure think a "well-educated" person from Pueblo could figure out which city is more safe from those statistics.
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Old 02-27-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,368,837 times
Reputation: 4132
I was thinking about it and in hindsight I can see where that site might be seen as competiting. So instead I look up a news site, Forbes, and Pueblo is not among the worse cities in the country for crime. So my point is the same. Here is part of the article:

Imagine living in a city with the country's highest rate for violent crime and the second-highest unemployment rate. As an added kicker you need more Superfund dollars allocated to your city to clean up contaminated toxic waste sites than just about any other metro


The link: http://www.forbes.com/2008/01/29/det...miserable.html

Last edited by Josseppie; 02-27-2010 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 02-27-2010, 02:52 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,125,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Here are the worse cities for crime in the United States for cities under 200,000 people:
[list=1][*]Topeka, KS
Topeka has the highest rate of property crime among cities with fewer than 200,000 population. The rates of larceny and robbery are especially high.[*]Pine Bluff, AR
Pine Bluff has a high rate of murder and the ninth-highest rate of robbery in the nation.[*]Monroe, LA *
Monroe suffers from significant property and violent crime, especially assault and larceny.[*]Alexandria, LA
Alexandria has the fourth-highest violent crime rate in the nation. Murder and assault are a problem in particular, but the rate of forcible rape is low.[*]Florence, SC
Assault and larceny rates are high in Florence, but the murder rate is low.



You notice Pueblo is not among the cities. That is because crime is not as big a issue here as you make it out to be. To be honost I don't think crime is a issue in Colorado or Wyoming and not much of a factor for any company looking to locate in either state.
So, if a city isn't in the worst 5, it's OK?

Last edited by Mike from back east; 02-27-2010 at 11:29 PM..
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Old 02-27-2010, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,368,837 times
Reputation: 4132
The bottom line is as much as you like to harp on Pueblo about crime that is not a issue anywhere in Colorado or Wyoming.

Last edited by Mike from back east; 02-27-2010 at 11:30 PM..
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