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Old 02-27-2010, 03:59 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,134,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
The bottom line is as much as you like to harp on Pueblo about crime that is not a issue anywhere in Colorado or Wyoming.
With all due respect, crime IS a significant issue in numerous locales in Colorado. In fact, much of the state, even a number of its smaller communities, have only mediocre crime statistics. Safer than East L.A.? Of course, but compared to MANY other locales in the US, we have nothing to brag about when it comes to crime. I think the first and foremost group that would disagree with you are some of our law enforcement officials who deal with what is happening out there on the streets every day. I count a number of these fine folks as friends, and they are nowhere near as sanguine as you are about Colorado's crime situation.

As for personal experience, I have lived in numerous locales in Colorado, from its urban areas to its most rural, along with a stint in Wyoming. Of ALL of those places, the only one where I was NOT a victim of significant property crime (thankfully I've avoided being a victim of violent crime, probably because I'm quite careful about where I go and with whom I associate myself) was Wyoming. Again, personal experience which supports the statistics.
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Old 02-27-2010, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,104 posts, read 20,379,610 times
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I guess we can agree to disagree on this one as I have lived in San Diego, Orlando, Fort Collins and traveled to more cities and the crime in Pueblo is not as bad as I have seen in other cities. The bottom line is I never feel unsafe in Pueblo even at night when I am in the downtown bars.

If the OP has further questions on this I am sure PEDCo has more statistics then you and I combined and would be more then happy to share them.
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Old 02-27-2010, 04:47 PM
 
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I should point out to the OP that Wyoming does have significant tax advantages compared to Colorado. No corporate income tax, no personal income tax, and as others have pointed out, more reasonable commercial property taxes. Incorporation laws are also very favorable in Wyoming, though most large businesses choose to do that in Delaware.

The cost of living (particularly housing) is also somewhat lower in Cheyenne as compared to Metro Denver, though there are probably other locations in the country that are even lower. Average wages and salaries in Wyoming also tend to be pretty low, which is obviously bad for employees but potentially favorable for employers.

It sounds to me like Cheyenne would be the perfect location for the OP's venture, and this is from a long-term Coloradan. The main thing Colorado would offer that Cheyenne would not is a much larger labor pool, especially if we're talking about hard-to-find fields in the hard sciences, engineering, and technical fields. However, the OP has already said that the main concern is finding 100 or so trainable unskilled people, so Cheyenne should be more than big enough for that.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
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I disagree but I will call PEDCo on Monday and get the tax information and post it here. One thing I can say for certain now is Pueblo is the cheapest place to live in the country plus Pueblo has a great workforce for manufacturing jobs, why many companies continue to locate here. Plus Pueblo is a growing hub city for a 20 county region so people move here all the time for work. The bottom line is finding employees should not be a issue here.

Plus on top of this Pueblo can and does offer incentives that I am not sure Cheyenne can match because we do have the 1/2 cent sales tax to help bring in primary jobs.
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Plus on top of this Pueblo can and does offer incentives that I am not sure Cheyenne can match because we do have the 1/2 cent sales tax to help bring in primary jobs.
Did you ever stop to consider that some locales don't have to stick existing taxpayers to hand money to prospective businesses?--those businesses will locate in those more desirable places without taxpayer-funded subsidies. No, you probably didn't think of that. Fact is, several studies have shown that taxpayer-funded business incentives have a very uneven record of success in encouraging business development and employment expansion. Many economic development experts, especially the ones not addicted to sucking at the government teat, believe those subsidies to be generally a failure at achieving their goals, especially over the longer term.

A far better incentive is a sensible tax system, both in rates and simplicity, which is something that Colorado does not have for business and commercial ventures. As noted, the property tax system is unfairly constitutionally biased against commercial and industrial enterprises, and Colorado's sales tax system is widely considered the most byzantine and complex sales tax system in the United State for vendors to conform to and to collect tax for.
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:08 PM
 
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CNN Money ranks WY as the state with the best tax climate for business. CO is ranked #13 in tax climate. However, neither state had any cities in the top 20 best cities to start a business.

In our opinion, both CO and WY have desirable locations that would fit our needs. We are looking at other states as well.

The work is tedious which results in employee turnover. If we set up in WY, we may eventually run out of people to hire. I'm joking about that....sort of. However, CO has a much larger workforce to draw from and we are more likely to find the right employees there.
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:22 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,134,776 times
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Were I to be choosing a place to start a manufacturing business and "business climate" was my main consideration, I would choose Wyoming in a heartbeat over Colorado. As a Colorado native, that is hard to admit, but--having lived in both states--it would be an easy choice for me.

Since economic geography has always been a pet interest of mine (starting back when I did some serious coursework in it in college), I would be looking at the whole picture before deciding where to locate a business. The absolute key question I would be asking is, "Where are most of my customers located, and/or where do I have to source most of my materials?" Because I believe that transportation costs are going to absolutely soar (and maybe even availability may be compromised) in the relatively near future, those two questions would be key for me. In all candor, those factors do NOT bode well for any big development of industry in either Colorado or Wyoming, because both states are long distances from population centers. The economics of the geography become a brutal master in times of a difficult economy or diminishing natural resources, and we are in the grip of both now.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:11 PM
 
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If maximizing our profits were the number one priority, we would be setting up shop in China. We are a private company with just a few people at the top. We don't have to please a hoard of greedy share holders.

We are aware of the transportation costs associated with various locations in relation to our suppliers and customers. WY or CO would be a good fit. The business is profitable, regardless of location.

We have to live there too. We aren't too sure we would like living in WY and think we would be happier in CO. We are willing to sacrifice some profit in order to live where we want. We have never been to WY, so we can't make that judgment yet.

Last edited by Scintilla; 02-27-2010 at 08:34 PM..
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,104 posts, read 20,379,610 times
Reputation: 4133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scintilla View Post
CNN Money ranks WY as the state with the best tax climate for business. CO is ranked #13 in tax climate. However, neither state had any cities in the top 20 best cities to start a business.

In our opinion, both CO and WY have desirable locations that would fit our needs. We are looking at other states as well.

The work is tedious which results in employee turnover. If we set up in WY, we may eventually run out of people to hire. I'm joking about that....sort of. However, CO has a much larger workforce to draw from and we are more likely to find the right employees there.
This is exactly why Pueblo is the best place for you as we are known as a blue collar city with deep manufacturing roots. This gives us a advantage over similar size cities and even ones larges then us as people are more then willing to move to Pueblo to work in manufacturing. That is why alternative energy companies are looking to move to Pueblo. Anotherthing that I have not talked about is Pueblo's climate. We are the warmest of any major city in Colorado and Wyoming with the least about of snow in the winter yet close to great skiing. This is one reason why CSU Pueblo is growing as students want to be in a warmer climate yet still be in Colorado.

I don't know what your company is exactly but from what you describe of it I think it would be a perfect fit in Pueblo.

Last edited by Josseppie; 02-27-2010 at 08:43 PM..
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Old 02-27-2010, 09:25 PM
 
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I've never been to Pueblo. From a domestic perspective, I think I'd like it better than WY based on what I've seen and read. From a business perspective, it isn't out of the question.
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