Manufacturing start up - CO vs. WY (Denver, Colorado Springs: how much, best school districts)

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by Scintilla

I've never been to Pueblo. From a domestic perspective, I think I'd like it better than WY based on what I've seen and read. From a business perspective, it isn't out of the question.

Then you need to visit Pueblo. When the PBR first looked into moving their headquarters from Colorado Springs to Pueblo the CEO said he was never going to move here. Then after he visited it and saw the city for himself he said there was no way he was not going to move here. Now they have a great building on our Riverwalk in downtown. Keep in mind we beat out such cities as Kansas City for the HQ.

Pueblo is in many way the "little town that could". In the 1980's we were hit hard when our steel mill and suppliers closed. Our unemployment rate went up to 17% but the true unemployment was higher and the joke was "last one to leave turn off the lights". Pueblo did not sit back and complain we started PEDCo voted in a 1/2 cent sales tax to help recruit new companies. We, also, built a convention center and Riverwalk that has become our signature. That made national news when Paul Harvey said Pueblo was a model city other cities should follow on his national radio program. Now Pueblo is thriving again with companies moving in and new retail stores opening. I have read where people expect the Pueblo MSA to reach 250,000 people in the next 10 years or so. That would make us a nice midsize city with great amentias yet still small enough to keep our "small town roots".

Pueblo, also, already has things you would normally only find in larger cities. For example tonight at our art center I was at a performance by the 5 Browns. It was sold out as people came from all over to see them. This has made Pueblo the cultural center of southern Colorado and as we approach 250,000 people that will be even more noticeable.

I know Pueblo can get a bad rap and that is why I am here to provide a positive opinion. As I have said I have a MBA and I can live anywhere in the United States but I decided to come back to Pueblo and stay, not because I had to but because I love it and would not live anywhere else. I honestly think if you came here for a visit you would see why I like it here so much.

[jazzlover]

Truth is, Pueblo and Cheyenne are kind of bookends at either end of the Front Range metroplex, both about 45 miles from the start of what most Coloradans think of as the Front Range corridor running from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs.

Climatically, both places are more extreme than the metro area of the Front Range. Cheyenne gets much more wind and cold weather in the winter, but is quite pleasant in the summer. Pueblo has milder winters, but is one of the hottest cities in Colorado during the summer. Both towns are prone to occasionally severe summer storms in summer--Pueblo to occasional "cloudburst" storms with infrequent severe hail; Cheyenne to relatively frequent severe hail and occasional cloudbursts.

Culturally the two towns are very different. Cheyenne is predominantly Anglo, with a small Hispanic population. Pueblo is quite ethnic in general, with a very significant Hispanic population.

Neither town is as close to mountain areas as some other places on the Front Range, but both have access to nice mountain country not too far away. I would characterize the mountain areas around Pueblo as more attractive than some of the mountain areas in close proximity to Cheyenne, but the Colorado mountain areas are always going to be considerably more crowded than those around Cheyenne and in Wyoming in general.

Both towns are 100 miles or so from Denver, and both drives are a traffic-choked pain in the a** for a considerable portion of the distance--from Fort Collins to Denver on the Cheyenne side, and from Colorado Springs to Denver on the Pueblo side.

Neither town is a paradise. I would, overall, pick Cheyenne over Pueblo, but neither town is the best its respective state has to offer as a place to live for pure lifestyle choices. The difference is that Cheyenne probably offers the best economic environment in Wyoming; Pueblo does NOT offer the best economic environment in Colorado.

To be honest, if I had to pick a locale in the Rocky Mountain West in which to locate a manufacturing business--one with good transportation, a business-friendly and efficient government, a willing workforce, and a halfway decent geographical location for recreation--I would pick the Wasatch Front in Utah. The big downer of that area for me is the absolutely horrid air quality that it can suffer in winter. There are always tradeoffs.

[Josseppie]

Few things I disagree with this.

1. Pueblo and Cheyenne are in the front range urban corridor. Look at this from Wiki:

The Front Range Urban Corridor stretches from Pueblo, Colorado, north along Interstate Highway 25 to Cheyenne.

The link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_Range_Urban_Corridor

2. The traffic from Pueblo to Denver is not that bad. I lived in San Diego and the traffic we have here is no comparison. The only time it can be bad is when a large event is going on like a Bronco game. Even then its not bad until I get to the Denver metro area.

3. Pueblo has been a depressed area since the economic collapse of the 1980's however historically Pueblo was one of the stronger economies and that is returning as lately Pueblo has had more success in attracting companies then a lot of cities, including Colorado Springs, where they have major budget issues that are worse then Pueblo's.

Now for what I agree

1. Cheyenne and Pueblo are different and Pueblo is more diverse. Cheyenne is colder in the winter and gets more snow. Pueblo can be hot in the summer but we are usually in the 90's with a few days above 100 but rarely over 105 and the nights cool off to the 60's and 70's with a cool mountain breeze. In fact I have heard Pueblo's climate called the "Goldi Lox" climate as we are never too hot and never too cold.

2. Pueblo has great views of the mountains and great access via U.S. Highway 50 and the Beulah highway. In fact Pueblo has a park near Beulah that is free to use and is a fun place to hike in the summer.

[jazzlover]

Well, Wiki is hardly the authority on everything (I call it the lazy-asses' anybody-can-write-anything-in-it encyclopedia). I do not (at least yet) consider Pueblo part of the Front Range metroplex because it is still geographically, economically, and socially somewhat divorced from it. I don't consider that a bad thing--in fact the misguided folks in Pueblo (or anywhere else) who want it to emulate the rest of the mess that is today's Front Range would do well to think about what they are asking for: auto-dependent sprawl, air quality issues, overpriced real estate, and all of the other social problems that come with a large metro area.

[Josseppie]

^ Just because we consider ourselves part of the Front Range does not mean we want to grow like Colorado Springs. In fact Pueblo is a much different city as we actually spend money to improve our city and urban core. That is why our budget issues during this recession is not nearly as bad as Colorado Springs and why this is a great place for a new company to move to.

[bostontopueblo]

Pueblo will certainly offer you a lot of people willing to work. I believe at the weapons destruction depot out on US 50 nearly 15,000 people applied for 1,000 jobs.

[Josseppie]

^ That is a good point. Plus I know that people are willing to move to Pueblo for a new job. That is what happened with Vesta's.

[Scintilla]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

To be honest, if I had to pick a locale in the Rocky Mountain West in which to locate a manufacturing business--one with good transportation, a business-friendly and efficient government, a willing workforce, and a halfway decent geographical location for recreation--I would pick the Wasatch Front in Utah. The big downer of that area for me is the absolutely horrid air quality that it can suffer in winter. There are always tradeoffs.

We are considering UT on paper, but I don't think it will be the winner. Personally, I like to visit UT for skiing and exploring, but it isn't at the top of my list for places to live.

[Josseppie]

Here are some pictures I have taken of the scenery around Pueblo.











Here are some pictures of the mountain park south west of Pueblo.

[bostontopueblo]

Pueblo has a lake, Cheyenne doesn't. That should be a good selling point there plus people will take 7.25 here although I think you should pay more than that.