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Old 03-15-2010, 02:14 PM
 
20,308 posts, read 37,797,930 times
Reputation: 18082

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
The fares are only a part of the picture. The crews that fly those commuter flights into places like La Plata Regional are chronically undertrained, underexperienced, and underpaid. One of the TV investigative news programs did an exposť on the crew involved in the Colgan Air crash in Buffalo, and what they found is not atypical for the commuter carriers. And it was some really scary stuff. You are taking your life in your hands flying with them, and that risk accumulates over time...

BTW, the fares on commuter-class aircraft are extremely sensitive to fuel prices as well...some of those telecommuters are going to be hating life when all the Fed's irresponsible dollar printing finally translates into commodity price inflation.
All true, though I've flown in some small aircraft in my travels for the Army and never had a problem. There was one time when I thought we had a fire but I was mistaken. It was a hot humid August day in Texarkana and we boarded a small turbo prop for the hop back to Dallas. We were still sitting at the gate with the passenger door open; when the A/C was turned on in the cabin it looked like smoke coming out of the air vents and it smelled of jet fuel. I came out of my seat like a shot, but an old-head USAF type I was traveling with grabbed my arm and yanked me back, pointing out that it was only the humidity being condensed into a cloud and picking up some outside air which had harmless exhaust fumes. Scared the crap out of me. The Buffalo crash was caused by a failure chain, i.e., a case of multiple risks compounding the chance of failure; do that enough times and there will be a crash. IMO, fears of safety are a minor concern.

Many tele-commuters fly on the company dime. My BIL back in VA has worked from home for decades and almost always flies at Xerox's expense, including to South America at times. Now that the kids are out of college, he may head off to Ashville, NC, where he can continue to work from home just fine. If a person only flies a few times a year, a few added bucks for airfare from a small town are not a reason for me to avoid living in the small town.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 03-15-2010 at 03:07 PM..

 
Old 03-15-2010, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Durango, CO
118 posts, read 268,052 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
To and from where? That seems awfully low for round-trip tickets out of Durango. My experience with Grand Junction (which is a regional airport) is MUCH most costly even using services like Orbitz.com.
SFO x 3
ORD x 1
Orlando x 1
Cleveland x 1
Las Vegas x 1

All conneted via Denver and booked via UAL website. Destinations on the NYC itineraries mentioned were similarly distributed.

Bottom line is that travel from DRO is a LOT more convenient and has proven to be no more expensive than metro NY.
 
Old 03-15-2010, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Durango, CO
118 posts, read 268,052 times
Reputation: 184
i just looked again at some expense reports, and one of the DRO-SFO trips was booled 4 days in advance and i got dinged for $650, so my average is actually closer to $430. But the point is, from my perspective if i can generally fly within the continental US for under $500 with ~ 2 weeks advance purchase, flying from DRO is cost-comparable to flying from NYC.
 
Old 03-15-2010, 05:09 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,099,702 times
Reputation: 9065
First, to answer Cosmic, I don't necessarily look for people to validate my point of view. I interact with a lot of people--and when I cite an example, it is usually one validated by more than one individual's experience. I probably see a wider cross-section of people working in this economy than most people do, just because of the nature of my work. (And the nature of my work is such that I WILL NOT discuss it on a public forum.)

Now, one thing I do know a fair amount about is transportation. Let's talk about the "commuter" or regional airlines. Simply stated, they are dying. They are only marginally viable in good economic condtions. In bad economic conditions or when fuel prices inflate, they chronically lose money. Right now, there is a savage "last-man-standing" war going on in that industry. That has led to some temporary price-cutting and deals for people flying in and out of rural airports (like Durango), but I guarantee you that it is not going to last. Either prices will go up dramatically in places that retain air service, or there won't be air service at all. Also, don't assume that pretty commuter airplane with a big name airline painted on its side belongs to that airline. Almost always, it is some company almost no one has heard of that is contracting with the big airline for service. How many people have heard of "Mesa Air"? Not many, huh. But if you fly out of rural Colorado, you probably flew on a plane that they own and operate. They're bankrupt. Makes you feel real good to fly on airplane whose owner is probably on C.O.D. with its vendors, huh?

I know that people don't want to hear this stuff, but things are one hell of a lot worse out there than they want to admit. I happen to be in a position where I see a lot of the uglier and vulnerable underbelly of this economy. It's really pretty ugly, and going to get a lot uglier. And when you are standing in s*** up to your waist, it's real hard to smell the roses that may be 10 miles (or 10 years) down the road.
 
Old 03-15-2010, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,255,168 times
Reputation: 6815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
All true, though I've flown in some small aircraft in my travels for the Army and never had a problem.....
LOL. So it's wandering off-topic to talk about kids not being able to afford to live where they grew up but not to discuss how to fly in and out of town? Having trouble understanding what this has to do with the future of real estate values. I'm confused.
 
Old 03-15-2010, 08:01 PM
 
Location: most beautiful place ever
1,836 posts, read 3,481,736 times
Reputation: 1430
CosmicW, seems i missed a lot here!! had to go to Phoenix to 'get away from all this' for awhile!
 
Old 03-15-2010, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Durango, CO
118 posts, read 268,052 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
How many people have heard of "Mesa Air"? Not many, huh. But if you fly out of rural Colorado, you probably flew on a plane that they own and operate. They're bankrupt. Makes you feel real good to fly on airplane whose owner is probably on C.O.D. with its vendors, huh?
Actually, my flights this week are on Skywest, not Mesa. Skywest, to the best of my knowledge, isn't operating under bankruptcy protection. But I'm not sure it would matter too much to me. Aloha, Air Canada, United, US Air, TWA, Pan Am, Delta, ATA, Japan Air, Frontier etc. are just a sampling of airlines that have filed for and/or operated under bankruptcy protection...should we have boycotted traveling on all of them?

As far as "how many people have ever heard of Mesa Air" goes, when you book a ticket (online), look at your itinerary or read your boarding pass it clearly says who the operator of the aircraft is. This isn't news, and your "not many, huh?" prediction is completely off base as long as anyone actually reads a travel document.

Sheesh, have the contents of your house been blown all over the yard yet? With the sky falling as fast as it is in your neck of the woods, i would think it would be getting pretty windy!
 
Old 03-15-2010, 08:58 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,099,702 times
Reputation: 9065
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchasse View Post
Actually, my flights this week are on Skywest, not Mesa. Skywest, to the best of my knowledge, isn't operating under bankruptcy protection. But I'm not sure it would matter too much to me. Aloha, Air Canada, United, US Air, TWA, Pan Am, Delta, ATA, Japan Air, Frontier etc. are just a sampling of airlines that have filed for and/or operated under bankruptcy protection...should we have boycotted traveling on all of them?

As far as "how many people have ever heard of Mesa Air" goes, when you book a ticket (online), look at your itinerary or read your boarding pass it clearly says who the operator of the aircraft is. This isn't news, and your "not many, huh?" prediction is completely off base as long as anyone actually reads a travel document.

Sheesh, have the contents of your house been blown all over the yard yet? With the sky falling as fast as it is in your neck of the woods, i would think it would be getting pretty windy!
Tell you what, next time you're on a commuter flight, ask your fellow passengers what company operates the plane your flying on. Then you will see just how many people read their tickets and travel documents.

And, I won't apologize to anyone about my opinions about the economic environment. I see too much of it firsthand every day. That few people want to admit that this country and most of the places in it--including Colorado, including Durango--are either entering or on the brink of a historically unprecedented economic wreck is not my problem. People can believe what they want. I'm positioning myself to survive what I am certain lies ahead. It's not a "sky is falling" mentality--just the opposite--I just plan for the worst and hope for the best. I think that is a pretty tried and true survival mentality.
 
Old 03-15-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: mancos
7,044 posts, read 6,170,969 times
Reputation: 4532
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
LOL. So it's wandering off-topic to talk about kids not being able to afford to live where they grew up but not to discuss how to fly in and out of town? Having trouble understanding what this has to do with the future of real estate values. I'm confused.
me too i wish these guys would start thier own thread.seems the same ones do it over and over. i mean heck gays and airline prices? go away pleeeese
 
Old 03-15-2010, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Durango, CO
118 posts, read 268,052 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by parfleche View Post
me too i wish these guys would start thier own thread.seems the same ones do it over and over. i mean heck gays and airline prices? go away pleeeese
You're right. I passed along my only feeble commentary on the original topic about 35 pages back, so i'll stop cluttering up the thread now. (I'm sure we'll have the same arguments somewhere else within a week anyway )
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