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Old 03-14-2010, 03:45 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,651,296 times
Reputation: 1681

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott5280 View Post
Bob Down South, go back to hijacking threads in the DEEP SOUTH..Take it from a real Colorado native; you are not a true representative of the real pervasive Colorado attititude. Your opinion of immoral is that of Alabama, not Colorado,,,GET FREAKEN REAL............I'M DONE WITH YOUR BS..
Wow, a "real Colorado native" has arrived. Whatever that means.

BTW, the "from Down South" is a bit further south than Alabama. Like around 3500 miles south of there. So sling all you want towards the old south...I'm not from there.

My understanding of what's moral and what isn't can be found in the most widely printed book in the world, printed in nearly every language on the planet. 'tis not an Alabama thing.

CCCVDUR: that smartgrowth link in your post is to some business consultant in Denver. (?)

I don't see Durango, as far as it is from the civilized world, having the economic engine to support the growth they've already experienced. Las Vegas, NV is discovering how hard sustaining a city built in the middle of a desert becomes when the easy money from speculation and tourism dries up. I see Durango headed for a similar situation, but without the benefit of a major transportation node to bring business in. And the people that have been moving in there aren't the kind that will roll up their sleeves and take up ranching or mining, either.

If the crash of 2008 were the analog of the crash of 1929, then we're just hitting 1931 now. In 1931 people still had no idea what was about to hit them in the decade ahead, and that was the last economic downturn we had caused by a collapse of the debt pyramid. Most of the banks in the US have balance sheets full of RMBS that are realistically worth less than 50 cents on the dollar right now (and declining), yet are carried at over 90 cents because there is no sheriff in town. They're insolvent but pretend not to be. We have massive new foreclosure and writedown action headed our way still. The commercial real estate bubble has hardly begun to wreak its havoc on the economy. Why would anyone believe that a place like Durango out in the middle of nowhere with little productive industry will ride out that storm with ever-appreciating property values? Of course they're going to go down, and hard I think.

 
Old 03-14-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,447,829 times
Reputation: 9287
Bob from down south wrote:
When it's a choice between anger and complacency, only anger produces the action that can drive change. Complacency produces more of the same, which is the last thing we need in a place like Durango that's well into the process of being overrun and transformed into something ugly. ( emphasis added )
There's always a choice. Actions carried out in a state of anger are not clear headed actions, and always generate a re-action. Anger has it's place, but like I said earlier, it ususlly consumes the angry person and turns the angry person into a powerless victim. EG: you are angry about the high real estate prices, and the presence of gay people in Durango, with absolutely no power to stop those trends. All your anger allows you to do is to write consescending posts about your perceptions. Those trends are likely to continue regardless of your anger.

Anger is part of the process, but it is only a starting point. You gotta move thru the anger stage very quickly or it'll eat you alive. I'm not advocating complacency either. Instead of falling into complacency, transform your anger into clear headed determination, and move forward from there. Let go of the gay bashing, and your diatribes about what you see and start thinking in terms of real solutions without the angry tone. Nobody want to listen to an angry man ranting and raving about what he disapproves of, except for others stuck in the same rut.

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 03-14-2010 at 09:56 AM..
 
Old 03-14-2010, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,246,015 times
Reputation: 6815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Why would anyone believe that a place like Durango out in the middle of nowhere with little productive industry will ride out that storm with ever-appreciating property values? Of course they're going to go down, and hard I think.

Because it's a nice place to live that affluent people from elsewhere will keep "discovering". We're not talking Flint, MI.

You have a nation of 100 million households, many of which are always seeking out nicer places to live and more and more of whom can work from anywhere due to the internet. You have maybe a few hundred homes a year (?) there that go on the market. That relationship will continue to keep it afloat.
 
Old 03-14-2010, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,651,296 times
Reputation: 1681
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
There's always a choice. Actions carried out in a state of anger are not clear headed actions, and always generate a re-action. Anger has it's place, but like I said earlier, it ususlly consumes the angry person and turns the angry person into a powerless victim. EG: you are angry about the high real estate prices, and the presence of gay people in Durango, with absolutely no power to stop those trends. All your anger allows you to do is to write consescending posts about your perceptions. Those trends are likely to continue regardless of your anger.
I'm angry about high real estate prices? Ummmm, no, not really. What real estate I need I already have, and it's already paid for. I am angry that many, many others are going to lose their shirts because we have a country run by the banking robber barons even as they commit an epic theft, and that there's a non-trivial chance we could still lose the whole shootin' match as a result.

I'm not "angry" about the overt presence of homosexuals I observed in Durango (a better word would be "revolted"), but I am angry that most other people who find it wrong, repugnant, immoral etc are cowed into silence. And I'm angry that so many interesting places in Colorado's mountain west have been turned into wastelands of mass-produced condos choking the landscape like cardboard kudzu, inhabited by people supported by a false economy, and that those dynamics have allowed them to bring in with them the ugliness and depravity of the LA Basin and San Francisco Gay Area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
Anger is part of the process, but it is only a starting point. You gotta move thru the anger stage very quickly or it'll eat you alive. I'm not advocating complacency either. Instead of falling into complacency, transform your anger into clear headed determination, and move forward from there. Let go of the gay bashing, and your diatribes about what you see and start thinking in terms of real solutions without the angry tone. Nobody want to listen to an angry man ranting and raving about what he disapproves of, except for others stuck in the same rut.
Well, that's one way of looking at it, I guess. But certainly not the way I look at it. Determination, clear-headedness and anger are not mutually exclusive, as anyone who has been in combat can affirm. Consider also that some of the most effective orations in history were made by angry, fist-waving men. Somebody has to knock a few people off their couches, get their minds off of American Idol, and get them to smell the smoke from the smoldering mess all around them, and preferably before it all bursts into flames they can't put out.
 
Old 03-14-2010, 01:49 PM
 
12,842 posts, read 24,468,229 times
Reputation: 18835
Question about men and earrings.
If I remember, back in the day, a man wore an earring in his left ear only- like a pirate or any other kind of outlaw. Left ear. (Left from the Latin word sinistre, giving "left" all the negative connotation- left-handed compliment, out of left field, to be "gauche," and do on).]
I'll leave left and right from politics to those more familiar with past French history.
Now it seems that men wear earrings all over the place, including either or both ears. Was the right ear supposed to signify being a gay man, as opposed to the left ear being an outlaw?
I'm so old-fashioned. When I was 20, my best friend and I seriously debated if we should get our ears pierced, because it seemed wrong to "mutiliate ourselves in the name of beauty." On the other hand, we both felt pretty and sexier with earrings, so our 1970 feminism took the hit. (Anita, where are you today?!)
Does Bob From the South think the waiter was coming on to him by being on limp-wrist/lisp side of things? After all, Bob did say he'd have a gay waiter who worked well.
I asked a gay friend why a man lisps if he simply is attracted to men and not women, and after a pause, he said, "Oppression doesn't create anything good." Group identification thing, I guess.
As a straight female who knows a lot of gay everybody's (I work in mental health, not in Colorado) I'd say I am pained to see the carictature of men or women that gender-aping presents. I think it's insulting to both genders (and anything in between).
As you were.
 
Old 03-14-2010, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,447,829 times
Reputation: 9287
Bob....Anger may be effective to rallying support for a casue on a short term basis, but, it usually backfires in the long run. EG: The anger of the masses in the 60's may have contributed to a quicker withdrawal from Viet Nam, but it did nothing in the long term to lessen the warlike attitude of America. When the bankers want a war to fund, they get it, by using their pawns in congress to inflame the masses to support their insanity and greed. Then the angry masses are shocked when it doesn't pan out as promised. It the wars stop so do most of the bankers profits.

Since your anger or revulsion at the Durango scene is only anger without any positive direction it is not likely to have any effect in bringing down real estate prices, curtailing the presence of more condos, or keeping gay people out of town. Like CAVA1990 posted:
You have a nation of 100 million households, many of which are always seeking out nicer places to live and more and more of whom can work from anywhere due to the internet. You have maybe a few hundred homes a year (?) there ( Durango ) that go on the market. That relationship will continue to keep it afloat. ( emphasis added )
Time will tell wether or not he's right, but his prediction is based on common sense rather than raw emotion that clouds ones thinking, so I see it as a more likely outcome.
 
Old 03-14-2010, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,246,015 times
Reputation: 6815
Bob, I will say you're about the only homophobic environmentalist I've ever encountered.
 
Old 03-14-2010, 04:30 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 4,789,502 times
Reputation: 6677
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Bob, I will say you're about the only homophobic environmentalist I've ever encountered.
Homophobia is quite a bit different than believing it is immoral, which seems to be the case here. I believe it is immoral as well, but that doesn't make me afraid of them.

I also believe that economic displacement of our youth from their native home in order for equity locusts and trustafarians to build trophy houses is immoral, but I'm not afraid of those people either.

Many people simply give up and say you can't fight "progress", but I view that attitude as nothing more than a justification for them to shirk their moral responsibility to create a better world for our children.
 
Old 03-14-2010, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,246,015 times
Reputation: 6815
What's great is that our children consider homosexuality a valid lifestyle and not immoral. Your beliefs are dying off much as a generation ago the belief that interracial marriage was immoral did. Glad I'm not one of you dinosaurs.

Nothing wrong with kids moving off to get educations and good jobs in different locations. It broadens their horizons and opens their minds to other places and cultures. I don't now live where I grew up. This is not a new phenomenon.
 
Old 03-14-2010, 07:54 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 37,784,136 times
Reputation: 18081
How MANY times do we have to have this insipid conversation? The economic displacement of youth from their "native homes" has been happening for GENERATIONS. Yes, for freaking GENERATIONS. The VAST majority of it is NOT related to any equity locusts or trustafarians building trophy houses. Farm and rural communities of ALL states have been losing population for 50-100 years (or more) as mechanization, centralization, factory farming and improved equipment mean that far fewer people are needed to farm the land or raise livestock. That trend is still at work. That's it.

No one is building trophy homes in the corn fields of the great plains, the feedlots of Greeley or in the sawed-off mountain tops of southern WV's coal fields. No one. Their kids have been leaving for GREENER pastures for generations; some join the military to get out, some manage to put themselves through college, some manage to do quite well -- but ALL of them are free to escape their "native homes" and strike out on their own. The huge migrations of the dust bowl era of the Great Depression were not because Ritchie Rich built a trophy home in podunk and scared the poor farmers out of their shacks. The mass migration of southern blacks to Chicago, Detroit and a dozen other big cities was for sheer economic survival, not because Daddy Warbucks built himself a whopper of a mansion in some sweltering Mississippi cotton field.

To keep whining about equity locusts or trustafarians is nonsense and sour grapes of the most bitter sort. The "youth" owe it to themselves to make their own way in the world and that usually means moving around and some eventually end up here in COLO. Oh the horror.

The following statement makes NO sense at all: "Many people simply give up and say you can't fight "progress", but I view that attitude as nothing more than a justification for them to shirk their moral responsibility to create a better world for our children."

I have no idea what that statement means. The youthful ones that DO leave their "native homes" to find a better life ARE taking moral responsibility for themselves to make their own way in the world. If all their parents were able to afford for their children were basic necessities and a good moral compass, then the parents have done well for their children, but the kids are not REQUIRED to stay put in "their native homes" for ANY reason. If they want to stay fine, if not, so what. If they leave for economic opportunity or simple wanderlust that's just fine too. They're under NO obligation to stay there and the parents are under NO obligation to keep them there. If the kids do well and build a big-assed trophy house somewhere, including good old Colorado, that is absolutely fine. It's happens EVERYWHERE that is desirable, be it waterfront, mountains, or great cities. To constantly whine about this is futile and a waste of keystrokes; there is nothing morally wrong about a trophy home or about eating meat, but whiners and do-gooders will try to make it out to be some sort of outrage. Phooey.

Now, everyone PLEASE get back to the topic of real estate predictions for Durango.

My prediction is for Durango to suffer the same real estate woes as most any other town is suffering these days; they'll be some downward pressure on prices, less building, slow sales, a few suicides, a lot of malaise and someday the sun will shine again, probably in 3-5 years. We won't know until it happens, until then all predictions are equally valid and equally worthless.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 03-14-2010 at 08:15 PM..
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