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Old 03-14-2010, 08:23 PM
29 posts, read 81,551 times
Reputation: 22


Good Lord Y'all. I'm the one who started this post. The original question - that I have yet seen debated - was to compare real-estate investments in the Durango area. I guess I didn't effectively make myself clear that I was asking a specific business question in a relative framework. Inotherwords (and to try to get us back on REAL-ESTATE, which was my original title and question on my original post,) could any of you who care to please give your opinions on what you'd invest in comparatively: Single family home rented out long-term, duplex rented out, vacation rental in Durango, vacation rental up near Purg? To all of you gloom and doomists regarding real-estate, then which is the least worst? Please, all of the rest of you who want to discuss other issues - ANY other issues - you're more than welcome to but please start your own post like I did here. No offense to anyone who has posted above. But let's PLEASE get back to the original questions of specific real-estate comparison by folks who have insight into this specific area of real-estate investment.
Thanks. The Poster.

Old 03-14-2010, 08:38 PM
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 27,023,055 times
Reputation: 6824
At this point I wouldn't invest in any kind of real estate unless it provides positive cash flow at a greater rate than I could earn through other means (investing in a business or stocks). I doubt you'll find that in Durango due to the greater than average ratio of home prices to rents.
Old 03-14-2010, 08:38 PM
8,317 posts, read 25,785,875 times
Reputation: 9132
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Because it's a nice place to live that affluent people from elsewhere will keep "discovering". We're not talking Flint, MI.

You have a nation of 100 million households, many of which are always seeking out nicer places to live and more and more of whom can work from anywhere due to the internet. You have maybe a few hundred homes a year (?) there that go on the market. That relationship will continue to keep it afloat.
I think this view is quite myopic--probably wishful thinking. Durango has been blessed with beautiful geography forever. But it languished in isolation until a few very interrelated events occurred: Americans, especially middle and upper middle class Americans, accumulated enough discretionary income to travel from wherever the came and find places like Durango in which to recreate. Also, a more robust and convenient transportation network--especially highways, and those massively federally financed and subsidized--brought the area out of relative physical isolation. Finally, came the "funny money" real estate speculation boom that--for awhile--made it seem that any fool could make money directly or indirectly in the real estate market in places like Durango.

But that was then. Now, what is happening? Americans discretionary income--to travel, to relocate, to "upsize" their home or locale--is evaporating. A lot of it will never come back. Economic stupidity, population pressures, pure demographics, and infantile political decisions are going to see to that. That transportation infrastructure? It, too, is crumbling under its own bloated weight. Both it and the fuel we need to use it are going to climb in cost beyond what most people are going to be able to afford. In that world, relatively physically remote places will suffer first and hardest. And the real estate boom? Well, unless the government succeeds in re-inflating it--which it is admittedly trying heartily to do, even if it destroys the rest of the US economy--that boom is over, probably for decades.

All of that bodes very ill over the long term for places like Durango--places where the economic foundation is built on the pillars of sand that I've described above.

One final note about all of this: There is an interesting article in the AARP Bulletin about what Baby Boomers are doing concerning relocation in their retirement years. Put simply, they're not relocating. We are probably going to see that the "Greatest Generation" that preceded the Baby Boomers was probably the last one that was economically able and behaviorally disposed to relocate to "greener pastures" for retirement. In other words, as those older retirees in places like Durango die off, there will likely not be many people to replace them. That is not what most expected, but it appears to be looming on the horizon.

Article here: Boomer Retirement Town: Staying Put and Changing the Nation - AARP Bulletin Today
Old 03-14-2010, 08:52 PM
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 27,023,055 times
Reputation: 6824
Jazz, I was just arguing against a crash, not saying it's going to be a bed of roses. I just don't see a major collapse there on the horizon. Durango isn't Florida. It's a tiny market that just doesn't have the same kind of boom bust dynamics (e.g. massive speculation and large numbers of housing units in the pipeline). It'll probably follow along with markets like Santa Fe where I don't hear a whole lot of "sky is falling" sentiment.

As to your AARP article, there's an echo boom generation behind us that's nearly as large a contingent as us boomers. Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around us.
Old 03-14-2010, 09:19 PM
16,438 posts, read 19,088,771 times
Reputation: 9513
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Ast to your AARP article, there's an echo boom generation behind us that's nearly as large a contingent as us boomers. Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around us.
So, are they ready to relocate and buy in Durango?
Old 03-14-2010, 09:40 PM
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 27,023,055 times
Reputation: 6824
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
So, are they ready to relocate and buy in Durango?
Considering a lot of them are working virtually, likely so.
Old 03-14-2010, 10:33 PM
857 posts, read 1,407,961 times
Reputation: 186
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
And I'm angry that so many interesting places in Colorado's mountain west have been turned into wastelands of mass-produced condos choking the landscape like cardboard kudzu, inhabited by people supported by a false economy, and that those dynamics have allowed them to bring in with them the ugliness and depravity of the LA Basin and San Francisco Gay Area.
I suggest you start a blog on Wordpress about Colorado Smart Growth. I agree w/ most of what you have to say in regards to the Durango real estate market including the quote above. I don't agree w/ your comments on gays, but that's irrelevant, since I'm a Libertarian. Google smart growth and you fill find plenty of web sites on this new agenda/philosophy such as: Smartgrowthusa.com sponsored by the US EPA.
Anti-sites from Wendell Cox: DEMOGRAPHIA: Demographics Development Impacts Market Research & Urban Policy
and Randal O'Toole: The Antiplanner
Also: When Smart Growth Comes To A Small Town: http://reason.org/blog/show/when-sma...h-comes-to-a-s
See Smart Growth USA – Urban Planners and Politicians Changing Our Cities – Tom Lane
for what appears to be a new web site under construction w/ more and more Smart Growth photos from various small and medium sized markets including Durango.

Last edited by CCCVDUR; 03-14-2010 at 10:43 PM..
Old 03-14-2010, 10:57 PM
857 posts, read 1,407,961 times
Reputation: 186
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
I also believe that economic displacement of our youth from their native home in order for equity locusts and trustafarians to build trophy houses is immoral, but I'm not afraid of those people either.

Very interesting comment, CAVA! That's why I got out of the 4 corners states, because the small to medium sized markets there generally have a closed attitude to outsiders ... vs. those on the West Coast. I did not move to Colorado because I had already lived in Arizona and New Mexico, and already had personal experience with tensions with the locals who wanted to hire, rent, and sell property to locals preferentially.

So my question to people in Durango, Flagstaff, Santa Fe, Albuquerque and others ... Since you don't want newcomers, then why do you allow Smart Growth and Urban Growth Boundaries to increase your Real Estate prices, so that your children can't afford to live there???

At least in Corvallis, Ashland, Lake Tahoe, Eugene, Santa Cruz, and suburban Seattle, etc. there's a much better consensus among everyone over who people want coming into town. That's hasn't yet been defined in the Intermountain West.

Like I said, if the Planning Commissioners and City Manager were elected positions, not appointed ones, then Durango voters would have much more choice over smart growth condo infilling or the lack of it. The 4 Corners area towns are good college towns, but if you're not a college student, head southeast to Austin, west to L.A., north to Seattle / Oregon, or northeast to Boulder/Denver/Ft. Collins.
Old 03-15-2010, 04:38 AM
13,294 posts, read 25,470,882 times
Reputation: 20392
Regarding "investing in real estate" in or near Durango- it would appear that there are tons of cheesy condos up near the ski mountain and they're not moving (and the reviews for rentals are quite negative).
I would never buy anything real estate-like now with other people (condo, duplex) because I don't want to sink money in with the fortunes and behavior of strangers.
I personally doubt that any money is to be made by buying real estate around Durango, simply because it is now cheaper than a couple of years ago. More instructive to look at foreclosures (such as in Bayfield/Forest Lakes).
Side question, are so many people really working virtually, or is that something of a myth? After all, if someone can live in Colorado and work long-distance, someone else can work from Bangalore.
I personally think Durango will continue as it is, with some regular people and some transients in and out for snowboarding and such. I doubt real estate will ever be as high as it has been (true of many places) and it likely will be somewhat lower.
Old 03-15-2010, 07:15 AM
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 27,023,055 times
Reputation: 6824
Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
After all, if someone can live in Colorado and work long-distance, someone else can work from Bangalore..
Don't assume that there is a whole pool of folks in Bangalore with the requisite skills to do higher level work. They're good at following scripts or writing code but not so great with knowledge work or management that requires developed inter-personal skills. Plus any job requiring a security clearance (most govt. contractor IT jobs) can't be done offshore. Many large companies are virtualizing to lower real estate costs, not to offshore positions. My wife works virtually and has for years as do I. Both of our companies, leaders in their industries, are virtualizing everything they can right now for the reason I mentioned.
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