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Old 05-03-2010, 02:48 AM
 
17 posts, read 35,405 times
Reputation: 17

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Hi I wanted to move to a state with low state tax, and low property taxes. How fiscally irresponsible or responsible is the local government in Colorado Springs, and Denver? Does anyone know to what extent the major cities in Colorado are involved in derivatives such: as collateralize debt obligations, and interest rate swamps? This is what I am referring to Looting Main Street: How the Nation's Biggest Banks are ripping off American Cities

Basically, I don't want to move to Colorado and end up having property taxes, and state taxes jacked up anyway, just so some lame politician can promise pork to his voters, to get himself reelected. I'm currently living in the most fiscally irresponsible state in the entire union California. The lower property taxes in Colorado are appealing to me, but I'm not sure if they are going to jack up taxes in Colorado or not later on, to keep the bread and circuses going.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:38 AM
 
11 posts, read 12,670 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnnnold View Post
Hi I wanted to move to a state with low state tax, and low property taxes. How fiscally irresponsible or responsible is the local government in Colorado Springs, and Denver? Does anyone know to what extent the major cities in Colorado are involved in derivatives such: as collateralize debt obligations, and interest rate swamps? This is what I am referring to Looting Main Street: How the Nation's Biggest Banks are ripping off American Cities

Basically, I don't want to move to Colorado and end up having property taxes, and state taxes jacked up anyway, just so some lame politician can promise pork to his voters, to get himself reelected. I'm currently living in the most fiscally irresponsible state in the entire union California. The lower property taxes in Colorado are appealing to me, but I'm not sure if they are going to jack up taxes in Colorado or not later on, to keep the bread and circuses going.
Hey Gov Arnie - I don't know the answer - keep in mind, also, that tax revenues go down when unemployment goes up since people pay less into income tax, sales tax, etc.

When total tax revenues drop and do not meet expenditures (education, police, etc.), then local governments either cut the budget, AND/OR raise taxes (and the key words here are AND/OR)

so far Colorado has low unemployment compared to the coasts

the fiscal irresponsibility is a disgrace and I hope people respond
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Old 05-03-2010, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,652,297 times
Reputation: 1682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnnnold View Post
Hi I wanted to move to a state with low state tax, and low property taxes. How fiscally irresponsible or responsible is the local government in Colorado Springs, and Denver? Does anyone know to what extent the major cities in Colorado are involved in derivatives such: as collateralize debt obligations, and interest rate swamps? This is what I am referring to Looting Main Street: How the Nation's Biggest Banks are ripping off American Cities

Basically, I don't want to move to Colorado and end up having property taxes, and state taxes jacked up anyway, just so some lame politician can promise pork to his voters, to get himself reelected. I'm currently living in the most fiscally irresponsible state in the entire union California. The lower property taxes in Colorado are appealing to me, but I'm not sure if they are going to jack up taxes in Colorado or not later on, to keep the bread and circuses going.
There are no guarantees anywhere. But with TABOR severely limiting state government's ability to raise taxes, Colorado is among the lesser of many known evils out there.

Of course that also means we will have less services to offer, so for those that want to come here and have their Colorado neighbors foot the bill for their health care, transportation, food, heating and other living expenses, I would suggest they will be disappointed by the relative lack of freeloader handouts here. We send broke starry-eyed would-be ski bums packing right back to whence they came by the hundreds every year.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:32 PM
Itz
 
714 posts, read 1,859,614 times
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ha-ha... FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE!
Since the citizens won't vote for tax raises (me amongst them) the government decids to enact FEES for everything. And over the course of this last year with the budget SERIOUSLY in the red - bonuses were still paid out to government employees..

I'm not saying its worse or better then other states... but I have lived in other states that were MUCH MUCH MUCH better - fiscally!

They don't call the governer Tax Ritter for nothing!

My .02 cents... shhhh. don't tell someone I spent that - i'll get taxed.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:07 PM
 
147 posts, read 181,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itz View Post
Since the citizens won't vote for tax raises (me amongst them) the government decids to enact FEES for everything. And over the course of this last year with the budget SERIOUSLY in the red - bonuses were still paid out to government employees..
Frankly, I don't mind the fees. Cut spending until the budget is balanced, then charge fees for specific services. If you use bike paths, pay a bike path fee. If you use the parks, pay a park fee. Make many services as self-sustainable as possible. We cannot afford to have general taxpayer funded everything. Keep the necessities, ditch the nons or fee them.

And with the budget in the red, those bonuses got to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
I would suggest they will be disappointed by the relative lack of freeloader handouts here. We send broke starry-eyed would-be ski bums packing right back to whence they came by the hundreds every year.
Glad to hear "tough love" is still functioning somewhere.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:56 PM
 
2,755 posts, read 11,514,509 times
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I think we have "fiscal responsibility" by necessity here. As mentioned, TABOR essentially makes increasing taxes extremely difficult -- it can only be done by ballot issue. That said, TABOR is an complex law -- so it's not totally clear to what extent "user fees" can be issued to earn revenue -- or what extent rising property values must be counteracted by correspondingly reduced property tax rates. Those issues are still being worked out as the state and city governments try to find out what their options are in raising revenues -- but suffice it to say that it's very difficult for governments to do raise taxes.

To that end, the state and municipalities are constantly having to learn to scrape by on not enough money. I think it's a double edged sword -- on one hand, it's safe to say that local government in Colorado is far more penny-smart than most. On the other hand, there are times when such constraints on budgeting can be pound-foolish: for example, deferred maintenance is now practically standard operating procedure for many public assets.

On one hand, the existence of TABOR is frustrating because it actually does handcuff some good things that the city and state should do but can't. But on the other hand I do appreciate that Denver in particular almost completely lacks the bloated city government like you see in most eastern or west coast cities. To illustrate my point, taxes in the city of Denver are actually less than most of its own suburbs -- the opposite of the usual situation in other cities.

Taken together, I'd much rather take Colorado's problems over most other states.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,351,797 times
Reputation: 4131
Of the two cities the OP listed I would have to go with Denver. Colorado Springs can't even keep their street lights on and they have no desire to help their urban core or use incentives to bring in major employers. Thus, I think they are going to have a rough decade ahead, even after Colorado is out of the recession.

Last edited by Josseppie; 05-04-2010 at 05:49 PM..
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,652,297 times
Reputation: 1682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Of the two cities the OP listed I would have to go with Denver. Colorado Springs can't even keep their street lights on and they have no desire to help their urban core or use incentives to bring in major employers. Thus, I think they are going to have a rough decade ahead, even after Colorado is out of the recession.

Criticising things you don't know about again, I see. I just looked out my front door, and what did I see?? Lots of street lights on out there.

It's true that we don't stoop to bribes and graft (aka "incentives") from the public treasury like our poor misguided neighbors to the south.

Rough decade ahead? I think we're all headed for that--locally and all across the looted plains.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,351,797 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Criticising things you don't know about again, I see. I just looked out my front door, and what did I see?? Lots of street lights on out there.
Really? So I guess this article from the Denver Post is wrong? So the OP knows what is going on in the Springs here is the article:

More than a third of the streetlights in Colorado Springs will go dark Monday. The police helicopters are for sale on the Internet. The city is dumping firefighting jobs, a vice team, burglary investigators, beat cops — dozens of police and fire positions will go unfilled.

The link: Colorado Springs cuts into services considered basic by many - The Denver Post

On top of that look at this from the Pueblo Chieftain about your water rates:

Colorado Springs water customers could see their water bills double in six years to pay for financing of the Southern Delivery System.

The link: http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/...cc4c002e0.html

That does not seem very fiscally responsible to me........
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
2,221 posts, read 4,652,297 times
Reputation: 1682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Really? So I guess this article from the Denver Post is wrong?
Yep. Wrong. WAY wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
More than a third of the streetlights in Colorado Springs will go dark Monday. The police helicopters are for sale on the Internet. The city is dumping firefighting jobs, a vice team, burglary investigators, beat cops dozens of police and fire positions will go unfilled.
And with those lights off, there's plenty of light. Conclusion: we had too many to begin with, and rather than accepting the status quo as an inescapable fact of life, we made changes that save money and yet do not thrust us into the dark ages as the shills in the entitlement-minded left-wing media would have you believe.

As far the the helicopters...we never really needed them. They were an extravagance. How many helicopters does your hometown Pueblo PD operate? Oh yeah...that'd be NONE.

Trimming back on public service manning that was put on the books based on projections of endless growth is absolutely prudent given that the projected growth that was used to justify those positions never materialized. And I hope it never does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
On top of that look at this from the Pueblo Chieftain about your water rates:

Colorado Springs water customers could see their water bills double in six years to pay for financing of the Southern Delivery System.
The Pueblo Cheaptain is hardly a credible source. And if my $17 monthly water bill doubles, so what? But without the cancer of unrestrained development, we don't need the SDS anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
That does not seem very fiscally responsible to me........
A ringing endorsement considering the source. The bulk of your posts in this forum do not reflect anything resembling even a crude understanding of fiscal responsibility.
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