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Old 05-25-2010, 12:06 PM
 
2,438 posts, read 5,054,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
Josseppie and wanneroo,

You are both stuck in the mantra of the past. Your vision would only make the Front Range look like the mess of Southern California. That is good enough reason right there to reject the concept, but the reality of our near future is going to make your path look like the stupidest mistake any government could make. That kind of thinking is one of the main reasons this country is broke now--government mis-investment and misallocation of resources into a system that is not sustainable and has no viable long-term future. Too bad we are so brainwashed that most people can't see it for what it is.
Finger point much?
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:07 PM
 
299 posts, read 511,416 times
Reputation: 254
If If I had to guess, I would say that there is about 60-70 miles of 2-lane highway between Pueblo and Fort Collins. If they were to expand to 6 lanes, it would probably be a 5-year project. Can you imagine the headache that driving this stretch would cause for drivers while construction is going on? It might take 2 or more hours to get from Colorado Springs to Denver on a good day, let alone on a day where there are 10000000000000000000 cars on the road!

The best option would be to build a HSR that runs from Albuquerque to Cheyenne. It would help take a lot of cars off the road...
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:15 PM
 
17,308 posts, read 24,315,460 times
Reputation: 12668
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyanks57 View Post
If If I had to guess, I would say that there is about 60-70 miles of 2-lane highway between Pueblo and Fort Collins. If they were to expand to 6 lanes, it would probably be a 5-year project. Can you imagine the headache that driving this stretch would cause for drivers while construction is going on? It might take 2 or more hours to get from Colorado Springs to Denver on a good day, let alone on a day where there are 10000000000000000000 cars on the road!

The best option would be to build a HSR that runs from Albuquerque to Cheyenne. It would help take a lot of cars off the road...
BTDT while back east. Yes, it's a mess, but it can be done and I-25 has a lot less traffic than the insane I-95 and I-66 corridors in the DC area. We all survived just fine as I-25 was widened inside COLO SPGS and Denver.

I favor a truly regional full-coridor rail solution, from El Paso to Billings, four tracks, modern engineering, a 200-year solution. I've discussed this elsewhere, but on the issue of I-25, yes, it should be 6 lanes from Walsensburg to Cheyenne as it's already overloaded / obsolete but we can't build the rail solution soon enough, so we have to alleviate the highway mess for the next 20 years and HOPE a rail solution emerges.
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:20 PM
 
8,096 posts, read 15,956,553 times
Reputation: 8140
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyanks57 View Post
If If I had to guess, I would say that there is about 60-70 miles of 2-lane highway between Pueblo and Fort Collins. If they were to expand to 6 lanes, it would probably be a 5-year project. Can you imagine the headache that driving this stretch would cause for drivers while construction is going on? It might take 2 or more hours to get from Colorado Springs to Denver on a good day, let alone on a day where there are 10000000000000000000 cars on the road!

The best option would be to build a HSR that runs from Albuquerque to Cheyenne. It would help take a lot of cars off the road...
I'm a staunch advocate of passenger rail, but I don't think high-speed-rail is a viable answer, given its astronomical cost. Consider this: with relatively modest investment, a conventional rail corridor could be developed from Cheyenne to Albuquerque (or even to El Paso) that would meet or exceed existing Interstate real-world average speeds. In fact, until just the last year or two, the completely "conventional" Amtrak Southwest Chief ran at 90 mph from Raton most of the way to Albuquerque.

As I've said before, our scarce resources would be far better invested in developing an EXSTENSIVE conventional passenger rail network than it would be in developing only a few INTENSIVE high-speed corridors, and leaving the rest of the country floundering around with no real transportation alternative to a car or bus.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,274 posts, read 11,687,947 times
Reputation: 3098
^

That is looking to the past. I agree with Mike as it will be 10 to 20 years before we get a HSR so in the meantime we need a better I-25. It will be a lot of work but they can do most of the work at night just like the did T-Rex in Denver and COSMIX in Colorado Springs. The most expensive part will actually be through Pueblo as that stretch will cost over 1 billion dollars. The results we will get from the new I-25 from Pueblo to Fort Collins will be more then worth the headaches we will have driving on I-25 during the construction phase.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Woodland Park, CO
2,981 posts, read 4,758,548 times
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The issue is you can't go 75mph from COS to DEN. I have never seen so many slow cars stay in the left lane on I25. I bet I average 60mph when driving to Denver on I25. Definitely need 3 lanes each way from N. Academy in Springs to Castle Rock.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,509 posts, read 11,244,957 times
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If only Eisenhower had the wisdom to build an interstate railway system and other public transportation instead of an interstate highway system, our rail system would be the envy of the world, and travelling would be so much more enjoyable....and probably less expensive than the real cost of travelling by car.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,579 posts, read 2,373,986 times
Reputation: 1638
More lanes never resolves the problem. NEVER. As was proposed above, if we add more lanes it will "spur growth" along the Front Range...which means that in 10 years time, we'll just need more lanes.

Obviously, the region is going to continue growing, but if it grows smart, we won't have one endless corridor of sprawl and congestion from Cheyenne to Albuquerque (Santa Clarita to Laguna in CA comes to mind.)

I agree with trains. A conventional limited train that can run 70 - 120 mph would actually do us just fine. Hit the major stops along the way. Each region can be responsible for it's own "commuter" systems (and it's own management of growth) without a larger, more expensive HSR to maintain statewide, and without unending construction on I-25 to widen it to 3 lanes...4 lanes...5 lanes...6 lanes...

I think it's correct to say we just don't have the population, or the need, to make the line high speed. Sure, it would be nice (it's always nice to get there faster), but it just wouldn't be practical.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:01 PM
 
17,308 posts, read 24,315,460 times
Reputation: 12668
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
If only Eisenhower had the wisdom to build an interstate railway system and other public transportation instead of an interstate highway system, our rail system would be the envy of the world, and travelling would be so much more enjoyable....and probably less expensive than the real cost of travelling by car.
Agree. The big picture is that our national leadership has failed to see the big picture. We should have a balance of public investment in BOTH modes, but since the 1920's public money largely went to roads. It is no mere coincidence that the bankruptcy of most railroads occurred with the maturity of the Interstate Hwy System in the early 1970's.

We've put bandaids on the problem for years with disjointed spending bills called ISTEA and such. We've NEVER had a written coherent national transportation policy that spells out our needs, goals, priorities and spending plans in a unified manner. As it is now, each mode is treated largely as a stand-alone issue. Congress and the Presidents have failed to grasp the idea that the various pieces of critical transport infrastructure ARE inter-related and should be treated as a single system.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
10,274 posts, read 11,687,947 times
Reputation: 3098
The growth will come rather we add more lanes or not. Thus, Colorado needs to be proactive and add more lanes so our transportation system can keep up.

As far as trains, HSR is the future and slow trains are the past. Colorado needs to look to the future and build a HSR line. This is the concept I like:

The Velaro is the most successful high-speed train in the world with more than 160 trains operating in four countries on two continents. Innovative and adapable, the Velaro is the perfect fit for America's future high-speed rail network.

The link: Siemens Industry Inc. - High-Speed Rail
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