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Old 05-25-2010, 02:03 PM
 
299 posts, read 788,191 times
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First of all, Pueblo is just fine having 4 lanes on I-25. In all the years that I've lived here, I've never been in a traffic jam that was caused by something other than an accident. Any time I hear someone say "rush hour in Pueblo," I can't help but laugh.

I really don't think there needs to be 6 lanes between Pueblo and Colorado Springs. Again, I've never been in a traffic jam on this stretch that was caused by something other than an accident or a minor road construction project.

The point I was trying to make is that the state needs to do something to make this stretch of road SAFER, whether it be lowering the speed limit or putting more state troopers on the road to help crack down on dangerous drivers.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,360,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goyanks57 View Post
First of all, Pueblo is just fine having 4 lanes on I-25. In all the years that I've lived here, I've never been in a traffic jam that was caused by something other than an accident. Any time I hear someone say "rush hour in Pueblo," I can't help but laugh.

I really don't think there needs to be 6 lanes between Pueblo and Colorado Springs. Again, I've never been in a traffic jam on this stretch that was caused by something other than an accident or a minor road construction project.

The point I was trying to make is that the state needs to do something to make this stretch of road SAFER, whether it be lowering the speed limit or putting more state troopers on the road to help crack down on dangerous drivers.
I will agree that right now Pueblo does not need a 6 lane interstate, however, as the city grows with the planned developments on the Riverwalk area and Pueblo Springs it will not only become important but necessary. Thus, Colorado should be proactive and upgrade the entire corridor from Pueblo to Fort Collins now and not wait till I-25 is a constant gridlock then develop a plan as it will cost more and take longer.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:10 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,111,186 times
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There are a lot of possible solutions that don't involve building more lanes. First, get the damned long-distance trucks off the roads and on to intermodal trains. That would alleviate a ton of congestion on the rural Interstates, as well as extending their physical life substantially. Second, make new suburban growth pay for all of the costs of expanding road systems, instead of socializing it on the taxpayers. That would make such growth either pay for itself or not happen. Third, build the conventional rail passenger system that I advocate.

By the way, all of this is GOING TO HAPPEN, whether we want it to or not. The energy/capital/debt situation we have built for ourselves is going to make it inevitable. We can either start moving that direction now, with a minimum of disruption and socio-economic damage, or we can procrastinate and postpone taking that course until catastrophic econonic/social/environmental/national security events force it upon us.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,360,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
There are a lot of possible solutions that don't involve building more lanes. First, get the damned long-distance trucks off the roads and on to intermodal trains. That would alleviate a ton of congestion on the rural Interstates, as well as extending their physical life substantially. Second, make new suburban growth pay for all of the costs of expanding road systems, instead of socializing it on the taxpayers. That would make such growth either pay for itself or not happen. Third, build the conventional rail passenger system that I advocate.

By the way, all of this is GOING TO HAPPEN, whether we want it to or not. The energy/capital/debt situation we have built for ourselves is going to make it inevitable. We can either start moving that direction now, with a minimum of disruption and socio-economic damage, or we can procrastinate and postpone taking that course until catastrophic econonic/social/environmental/national security events force it upon us.
Those are great but we still need I-25 to be 6 lanes. I drive I-25 from Pueblo to Denver all the time and have seen the traffic increase since I was a kid, since the late 1970's, and know first hand how it would help the flow of traffic.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:18 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,111,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
Those are great but we still need I-25 to be 6 lanes. I drive I-25 from Pueblo to Denver all the time and have seen the traffic increase since I was a kid, since the late 1970's, and know first hand how it would help the flow of traffic.
zenk was right--expand the highway and it just encourages more sprawl and more traffic. When I-25 was two lanes through Denver, it was jammed. Four lanes, same thing. Then six. And with every expansion, the proponents said, "If we build this for X-gazillion dollars, it will be expensive, but it will solve the traffic congestion problems." Well, they were half-right every time--it did cost a gazillion dollars. And, then, every next time, they said, "Well, this time it will be different. It will fix traffic congestion." But, of course, it didn't. So, this time will be different--why? Well, it won't.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:25 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 4,793,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie View Post
The most expensive part will actually be through Pueblo as that stretch will cost over 1 billion dollars.
Is Pueblo even worth a billion dollars? Seriously, is it?

If any of these towns want any kind of rail service, whether it is high speed or conventional rail, they need to start planning for it now by incorporating the rights of way into their master plans. That would mean denying building permits along those rights of way and buying or seizing the land for the public good. In the case of roads crossing the right of way, it would mean building expensive over/underpasses to keep them clear.

IMHO, if we want to expand rail networks the easiest solution would be to run them along the median of the interstate highway system with a major stop in each town where people and cargo could be offloaded to smaller trains, buses, or rental cars. Adding more lanes to I-25 will only eat up space that could be devoted to rail traffic.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,459,702 times
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If anyone believes that adding more lanes to an interstate highway is going to resolve traffic issues, you are sorely deluding yourselves.

As an example to support my statement above, I lived in the Hampton Roads ( greater Norfolk ) area of southeastern Virginia for 16 years. During that time, there was a section of I-64 that was in a state of permanent construction with lanes being constantly added. Also during that time...even with the additional lanes or more likely BECAUSE of the additional lanes, traffic continued to get worse and worse every year. It's like the movie Field of Dreams where the voice says to Ray Kinsella..... If you build it, he will come.

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 05-25-2010 at 03:46 PM..
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,360,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
zenk was right--expand the highway and it just encourages more sprawl and more traffic. When I-25 was two lanes through Denver, it was jammed. Four lanes, same thing. Then six. And with every expansion, the proponents said, "If we build this for X-gazillion dollars, it will be expensive, but it will solve the traffic congestion problems." Well, they were half-right every time--it did cost a gazillion dollars. And, then, every next time, they said, "Well, this time it will be different. It will fix traffic congestion." But, of course, it didn't. So, this time will be different--why? Well, it won't.

Or perhaps the growth would of come anyway so if we would have not widen the interstate the traffic in Denver and Colorado Springs would be much worse today then it is. That is the same with the rest of the corridor as everything points to us growing with or without a better transportation network, thus, I submit that we need a better transportation so we can be prepared for the growth that will come.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,102 posts, read 20,360,320 times
Reputation: 4132
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
Is Pueblo even worth a billion dollars? Seriously, is it?

If any of these towns want any kind of rail service, whether it is high speed or conventional rail, they need to start planning for it now by incorporating the rights of way into their master plans. That would mean denying building permits along those rights of way and buying or seizing the land for the public good. In the case of roads crossing the right of way, it would mean building expensive over/underpasses to keep them clear.

IMHO, if we want to expand rail networks the easiest solution would be to run them along the median of the interstate highway system with a major stop in each town where people and cargo could be offloaded to smaller trains, buses, or rental cars. Adding more lanes to I-25 will only eat up space that could be devoted to rail traffic.
Is Pueblo worth a billion dollars? Good question but unfortunately that is the cost to fix the interstate through the city as it was built directly though town. At some point it will have to be done as downtown grows as the highway was not built for a town much larger then we are now. So the question is not "if" but "when" and the cost of the project will only go up.

As far as HSR, I agree we need one but I don't think it should follow the interstate as there already is no room and would cost more upgrading the highway to allow for it then building a new HSR. In Pueblo alone I bet that would triple the cost of the interstate project. Not to mention thru Colorado Springs and Denver where its already built up with no room.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,459,702 times
Reputation: 9292
Josseppie wrote:
I submit that we need a better transportation so we can be prepared for the growth that will come.
I think we all agree that we need a better transportation system. Where we disagree is on the definition of a better transportation system.
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