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Old 06-03-2010, 02:04 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,049,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper2 View Post
That's fine, but don't try to pretend that only the rich live in the mountains. That is very very untrue.
Where did I say that?

I sure as hell wasn't rich. I spent most of my time living in employer subsidized housing with 3 other roommates.

To have a good quality of living in the desirable mountain towns it does take a significant amount of wealth and income to do so. That's why I moved to PA in 2007, there was no way I could afford a decent place to live on my own. However I am more than happy to visit friends and family.

No it's not like living in Denver, that is for sure. Since you don't have any experience with Colorado, nor have lived here, you are more than welcome to search for my posts in the Colorado forum and read all about it.
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Old 06-03-2010, 02:09 PM
 
66 posts, read 211,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziasforever View Post
I have to agree with Jazz-mon and the roo about mountain living being very different. I too have a cabin perched on a ridge. I don't live there of course but when I first bought it, I thought "wow I could live here all year" but now that I've had it for a while, seen a few bears, lost my dog (for a while) thinking it was eaten by a mountain lion and suffered breakins my view is quite different.

I think what these folks are trying to say is that Colorado living, Front Range, Plains or Western Slope, is a trade-off.

I believe they are right about the living situation. It is more expensive than other places like Missouri or Texas or Iowa. I don't know but I think you can get by making $10.00 an hour in Tulsa or Joplin or Iowa City. I can tell you this; it'd be tough to get by on that in Alamosa, one of the cheaper Western Slope Cities.

Also, I don't think Wyoming living is that cheap. It seemed to me houses were quite expensive in Gillette against the wages offered. They might be on the same keel as California now since the housing market there has fallen off a cliff and the financial system has melted down.
When people start talking about places like Wyoming being expensive, I have nothing more to say. At that point the thread has descended into complete ridiculousness.
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Old 06-03-2010, 02:24 PM
 
9,817 posts, read 19,049,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziasforever View Post
I have to agree with Jazz-mon and the roo about mountain living being very different. I too have a cabin perched on a ridge. I don't live there of course but when I first bought it, I thought "wow I could live here all year" but now that I've had it for a while, seen a few bears, lost my dog (for a while) thinking it was eaten by a mountain lion and suffered breakins my view is quite different.

I think what these folks are trying to say is that Colorado living, Front Range, Plains or Western Slope, is a trade-off.
I have found life is a trade off and there are no free rides. All depends what you are willing to live with and accept.

I gave up a lot to live in the mountains and gained a lot when I left. But it was a great experience.

There is always a catch 22 and I think for a lot of people they've seen all the purdy pictures of the Colorado Rockies and in my talking with people often they seem to think with mountain living they will have a perfectly balanced 4 seasons with a nice big house and a really nice job and tons of time to hit the hills skiing and to do all sorts of other outdoor activities.

The reality is that unless they have outside wealth or a really, really good job(which is tough to find right now) that lifestyle is tough to obtain up in the hills. The reality is lots of roommates and 2 or 3 jobs. My sister makes about 80k a year in Eagle County and until recently was still waiting tables sometimes at night. Her husband was making six figures until the financial crisis collapsed all that and he is struggling. They live in a tiny condo that in just about any room you can spin your arms around and touch the walls.

Or people say they'll just have a "cabin" in a less expensive area. Well again where do you work, where do you get water, how long does it take to get to town, how do you deal with nine months of winter and so on.

It's just not like rocking up to suburban Denver and getting a bog standard job in a bog standard neighborhood with little league and big box shopping aplenty.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,440 posts, read 3,882,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhopkins View Post
My wife and I have both lived our entire lives in the Midwest, Kansas for myself and Missouri for her, and are considering a change of scenery. I've spent lots of time vacationing in Colorado, but am not familiar what areas would be the right ones to settle down and raise a family in. Wanting something smaller and quaint, less touristy, more local. I am a dentist and she is a family physician, so that might mean somewhere closer to a medical facility for her, and a town that is not merely a vacation destination for myself. Would love anyone's input.
I would suggest any of the front range towns like Denver, CoSprings, or Boulder. There are quaint areas in each of these cities, and there are excellent schools and amenities for the kids when compared to smaller towns further west. In addition, there are a good number of medical facilities out in the front range vs. other places.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Del Norte NM
529 posts, read 1,139,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper2 View Post
When people start talking about places like Wyoming being expensive, I have nothing more to say. At that point the thread has descended into complete ridiculousness.
I didn't say Wyoming was expensive it just seemed that way. I was looking at an IT job in Gillette, which is basically on the plains except they have that Devil's tower thing.

More to the point; the job I was looking at paid about $30K. This job would have paid 50 to 60 in Denver and even more in Dallas. The houses were priced in the Denver price-point ($200 to $300K). Seems expensive to me. Then there's Jackson Hole.

However then there's Rawlins. I had a job interview with a bank there and the interviewers advised me you could pick up a brand new house for about $180K. We never got to the salary part but I wonder what Rawlins wages will buy.

I think Wyoming's cheaper than California on the whole but again the houses seemed expensive when considering wages.

And yes, I guess we are bickering too much about stupid things not related to Colorado and not helping the authors of this thread out at all. I'll quit posting stupid things myself on this thread.

Last edited by Ziasforever; 06-03-2010 at 04:33 PM..
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:49 PM
 
66 posts, read 211,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziasforever View Post
I think Wyoming's cheaper than California on the whole but again the houses seemed expensive when considering wages.
On the whole, Wyoming is much much cheaper than California. There really is no comparison. That's like comparing Arkansas to New York. California has a much larger and more advanced infrastructure than Wyoming. Also California's economy eclipses Wyoming's economy.
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:33 PM
 
16,189 posts, read 20,215,827 times
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I've been with City Data close to three years. One of the first, if not the first post I made was about the growth problem on the western slope. And the one comment I made that I still stand by is the observation that "you can't put 21 gallons of fuel in a 20 gallon tank, and that you make a big mess when you do." A little later in the thread Jazzlover was taking a little heat for his stance on the growth issue but his response to all that I still remember. He said "I don't want to see good people get hammered."

He was referring to people who have been priced out of the market in an area that they have grown up in. And he also included people who moved from another area not because they thought they could make a killing by flipping their home and doubling their money (like so many did), but to live in an area that is not crime ridden, to live in an area where you can have some peace of mind.
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Old 06-03-2010, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Del Norte NM
529 posts, read 1,139,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H View Post
I've been with City Data close to three years. One of the first, if not the first post I made was about the growth problem on the western slope. And the one comment I made that I still stand by is the observation that "you can't put 21 gallons of fuel in a 20 gallon tank, and that you make a big mess when you do." A little later in the thread Jazzlover was taking a little heat for his stance on the growth issue but his response to all that I still remember. He said "I don't want to see good people get hammered."

He was referring to people who have been priced out of the market in an area that they have grown up in. And he also included people who moved from another area not because they thought they could make a killing by flipping their home and doubling their money (like so many did), but to live in an area that is not crime ridden, to live in an area where you can have some peace of mind.
I shouldn't be posting this because we are way off topic here but your posts about growth problems in Colorado is at least intriguing. You really can't tell someone "No, you can't come here" and I was told by more than one Denverite that whoever was governer in the 80's saw the potential growth explosion of the 90's and proclaimed 'if we don't build 'em (roads) they won't come." But did come and are coming more and more as we march forward in time. It seems the vast majority are coming from California and the Northeast for whatever reasons they are. For California I think it's the over population thing for the Northeast I think it's the weather/geographical thing.

What do you do the 'curb' the growth or can you curb the growth? I don't think there's anything you can do to change that. After all the US is still a free country. You can live wherever you want however you want. I guess the Western Slope will have to figure out how to get 22 gallons of fuel into a 19 gallon tank. Especially as the country edges the 400 million population mark coming in the next 10 or 20 years.

Sorry dude. But hey, Jazzlover has someone sticking up for him....even though the other posters think he might be a little surly. :-)

Last edited by Ziasforever; 06-03-2010 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:40 PM
 
16,189 posts, read 20,215,827 times
Reputation: 46757
No need to apologize. I can provide a little insight in regards to Californians who moved here.

When Exxon pulled the plug on their oil shale project the Grand Junction, Rifle, and Parachute area went into a slump that stretched almost a decade. Yep! It started in May of 1982 and unemployment started in for thousands of people. That time is different than this time because at that time there was a republican administration in office. Which meant that when you draw unemployment you drew for 26 weeks. That's it. That's the one thing the workers of today have going for them as they have been able to draw consecutive unemployment extensions to keep their jobless claims going. Some people I know in my neighborhood have drawn out all their benefits and the supplemental extensions as well.

The area hit 10% unemployment in a year. By 1985 the HUD listings in the Grand Junction daily paper were taking up full pages. There were hundreds of homes for sale that sat empty for years. I ought to know, as I bought one. I closed on mine in the summer of 1989. Mine had sat empty for 5 months before the oil shale pullout. That is almost 8 years. HUD was going to sell these properties no matter what and the saying "any reasonable offer" was at the top of the page of the real estate ads.

The area I bought at is roughly 28 road north of North avenue. That area was especially hardest hit as it was in a low budget area (hey I don't mind admitting it!). In some areas nearly entire sides of blocks were vacant. And as far as the commercial end of the real estate subject goes, well, here's one for ya. McDonalds in the Teller Arms Shopping Center said "Adios"! Yep, gone city by 1985.

Enter California.
A good friend of mine (who's retired now) worked for 3 decades at the drivers license bureau downtown. I asked him once which state has more people coming in to settle in Grand Junction. As that is the first place a person goes regarding residency. He said California by far. Maybe a year or so before the L.A. riots occurred in 1992 Grand Junction was taking out ads in out of state big city papers. My best friend (who lives near Ventura, California) saw signs on the sides of L.A. buses advertising Grand Junction. Californians flooded in here for various reasons. But I'll give one reason that didn't (at that time) apply to anyplace else. And that is the L.A. riots. I know of people here who took "short sales" on their properties in so. California because of the riots and their thinking was the same type of action would be simmering in their area. One gal I know who lives in Montrose got out of there with what she could fit in a 9 passenger station wagon regarding her personal possessions. Couch, chairs, tables?. Nope. She left them in the rented house. She told me she originally wanted to go to Denver but ran out of money, had a breakdown, and was stuck in Montrose. She ran into one friendly mechanic, several friendly Montrose natives, and decided to get a room in one of the cheap motels on Hwy. 50. Soon she got on her feet, found employment at a real estate company, went to school later and passed her real estate license. I saw her a couple years ago, she told me "God knows where I'd be if that Chevy hadn't took a dump on me."

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 06-03-2010 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:56 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,143,563 times
Reputation: 9066
I seriously doubt that Viper has ever lived in Wyoming or Colorado. I have--both states. As part of my work, I traveled both states extensively and studied the economy of both--extensively. Talking about the economy and economic statistics is not an abstraction for me--for a number of years, it was part of my work. So, unless Viper has "walked the walk"--and his posts indicate that he has not, he might try listening to what some people who have far more real experience living and working in this region (and not just me) have to say.

As to Zia's comment about people living wherever and however they want, people can do that only so long as there are sufficient economic and natural resources for them to do so. If those resources aren't available, then people either have to do with far less, go somewhere else, or die. If we keep pushing the envelope worldwide, nationally, and locally with exploding populations--that last option will probably become the dominant one. I predict widespread famine and death will be the norm in the Third World within less than a decade, and we may not be far behind in this country if we keep heading down our present path. "Relocating" will take on a whole new meaning then.
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