Columbia vs. Greensboro, NC (Greenville, Sumter: sales, appliances, house)

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by Woodlands

I just highlight that as an example of balkanization of Central SC as a Region...Are Sumter and Orangeburg even in the Midlands???

Yes they are, but I suppose one could also consider the Lowcountry to be economically "balkanized" to an extent as well. Walterboro and Georgetown pretty much have their own thing going on, and Beaufort/Hilton Head are much more connected to Savannah than Charleston.

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by Chi2Midlands

That being said, if the regions are going to grow and if Columbia is to meaningfully connect with a broader economic region, then it is important to get development (not just sprawl) up towards Charlotte. I personally favor a string of towns (Winnsboro, Chester, etc.) that are meaningfully connected.

So I suppose you're referring to the occasional manufacturing facility? Or perhaps some county/bi-county industrial parks? The interesting thing is that Charlotte is sprawling south, but not really down the I-77 corridor; the real Charlotte sprawl is going down Highway 321 into Lancaster County.

[Woodlands]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

So I suppose you're referring to the occasional manufacturing facility? Or perhaps some county/bi-county industrial parks? The interesting thing is that Charlotte is sprawling south, but not really down the I-77 corridor; the real Charlotte sprawl is going down Highway 321 into Lancaster County.

Lancaster??? I would have thought more so York County?The only growth in Fairfield County will likely be on I-77 where they built that new interchange several years ago. Then again that may be only some commercial and possibly industrial. I doubt that it will have (and maybe they dont even want) subdivisions due to the rep of the schools and the lack of infrastructure. Northern Richland County still has PLENTY of land and will thus continue to absorb the growth out of the NE.. A new high school or a redrawn school line will contine the growth on the northern reaches of Monticello, Fairfield, and Wilson Blvd. Dont know what to say about Chester or Union Counties.. Have not been to either in some time...

[Chi2Midlands]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

So I suppose you're referring to the occasional manufacturing facility? Or perhaps some county/bi-county industrial parks? The interesting thing is that Charlotte is sprawling south, but not really down the I-77 corridor; the real Charlotte sprawl is going down Highway 321 into Lancaster County.

I haven't been down the 321 corridor to Lancaster, but are you seriously saying there less sprawl along I-77? I find that hard to believe - an eight-lane interstate highway is going to be a natural conduit for sprawl. Moreover, Fort Mill is already a heavily in-demand bedroom community for its proximity to Uptown Charlotte, low property taxes, and one of the best school districts in the Charlotte metro region and SC as well. Rock Hill is a large town (really a city by SC standards - it's bigger than Greenville by population) and has lots of development. There is big box development EVERYWHERE up and down I-77. Plus there is the upscale lakefront living component with Lake Wylie/Tega Cay. I do realize there is development emerging along 321 - the big Sun City development, some corporate headquarters, etc. It's probably a spillover from the Pineville, NC area. If one is considering a suburban community south of Charlotte, I would think based on location and school district, many people, especially young educated families, are going to consider Fort Mill and perhaps Rock Hill first.

Perhaps you mean that there is more sprawl potential further south along 321 than along I-77. In that case you'd probably be right - past Rock Hill I really don't see any development into Chester County, whereas Lancaster County, I'm sure is going to really push getting Charlotte-oriented development further down its northern "finger" and down into the heart of the traditionally textile-oriented County (i.e., the City of Lancaster, which is still trying to emerge from its textile heydays). I think that "finger" is the economic hook the county is trying to leverage, especially since technically the Census Bureau hasn't (yet) included Lancaster County in the Charlotte-Rock Hill-Gastonia metropolitan area. Contrast this to Sumter, which as Woodlands implied, doesn't seem to have any real desire of connecting deeper with Columbia (other than perhaps a few Shaw AFB folks who happen to decide to live in Richland County & commute in).

[Woodlands]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

Yes they are, but I suppose one could also consider the Lowcountry to be economically "balkanized" to an extent as well. Walterboro and Georgetown pretty much have their own thing going on, and Beaufort/Hilton Head are much more connected to Savannah than Charleston.

I hope old Stevie B begins to look more broadly at Columbia's relationship with some of the cities in the Region and how they/we can all work together for the improvement of the Region. I think he has a real opportunity not being "from Columbia's City Council" and being a new politico in city politics to make those types of partnerships. He seems to be moving in that direction. His first action should be to change the name of CAE to the Columbia-Cayce Regional Airport of course I'm kidding....Though I like the sound of the Columbia Sumter Interregional Airport

[Chi2Midlands]

Originally Posted by Woodlands

Lancaster??? I would have thought more so York County?The only growth in Fairfield County will likely be on I-77 where they built that new interchange several years ago. Then again that may be only some commercial and possibly industrial. I doubt that it will have (and maybe they dont even want) subdivisions due to the rep of the schools and the lack of infrastructure. Northern Richland County still has PLENTY of land and will thus continue to absorb the growth out of the NE.. A new high school or a redrawn school line will contine the growth on the northern reaches of Monticello, Fairfield, and Wilson Blvd. Dont know what to say about Chester or Union Counties.. Have not been to either in some time...

Yes - I know a handful of folks, mostly health-care professionals, who commute from NE Richland up to Winnsboro. It's only a 30-minute commute or so, and if public schools are a factor in locating a home, then Richland 2 is a slam-dunk over Fairfield.

Fairfield's best hope is for Blythewood-oriented (industrial/commerical) development to spillover over the County line, but I'm not holding my breath, since, as you imply, there is ton of land left in the Blythewood area, and if one is not considering a top school district, then the far northern rural portions of the Richland 1 district are in play as well. There is still a noticeable drop-off in development north of Blythewood Road/Exit 27. Some major development at the new Peach Road/Exit 32 area could be a future sweet spot as it can better attract workers from Northern/Northeast Richland County than the Exit 34/Winnsboro area. Over the next few decades, Fairfield should try to position itself similar to how Iredell County/Statesville is north of Charlotte (Southern Iredell County/Mooresville is in the thick of development and sprawl, enough to land Lowe's headquarters).

The interesting thing is that I think much if not most of Blythewood gets its drinking water from the Winnsboro system, not Columbia's. Could that be something that could be leveraged for development?

[le roi]

Originally Posted by Woodlands

The lack of a Sumter-Columbia connection is a REAL tragedy. I think the swamp is a physical and mental barrier in the minds of the politicos of both regions. I dont think that the pols in Columbia pay Sumter enough attention given their own discourse with the cities that are right across the river from it.. and Sumter is totally content with being the 'prom queen' of the santee wateree region and the motto of... "we are better than (manning, bishopville, summerton... et al)" oohh the big bad big city to the west...

I read a regional rail study produced some years ago by SCDOT or the Council of Governments that noted that the LEAST traveled segment for a Midlands commuter rail program was between Wateree/Eastover and Columbia. The study did not include Sumter because it is in the Santee Lynches Region and not the Central Midlands. Now Im not saying that Columbia is ready for Commuter Rail.. but I wonder how the numbers for this study would have been impacted if they had followed the line all the way to Sumter.. instead of Wateree/Eastover??? Clearly there should have been some coordination between the two Regions on this study.. I just highlight that as an example of balkanization of Central SC as a Region...Are Sumter and Orangeburg even in the Midlands???

Growing up in Sumter, there was never a clear cut opinion about whether Orangeburg and Sumter were, or were not, in the midlands.

bottom line is that Columbia and its media doesn't want anything to do with Sumter.

[Chi2Midlands]

I won't comment on locals' personal feelings and perspectives, since I don't know what's in their hearts and what every conversation is like, but here's my thoughts on factors contributing to Sumter's "isolation", particularly from Columbia:

- There is no meaningful interstate highway connection in or near the city of Sumter. There are only a couple of exits off of I-95 on the eastern rural fringes of Sumter County. That is not to say it is poorly connected (US 378 to Columbia isn't exactly a bottleneck, for example), but it lacks a clear "front door" to a broader region. Compare to the city of Florence: Technically smaller than the city of Sumter, but is in a decently prosperous metropolitan area, enough to support a small air carrier airport, at the confluence of two interstates, one of which terminates in a good front door to the city. Admittedly it is a suburban big box-oriented front door, but it is well-kept and feels like a decent suburban retail corridor you might find in a larger city. I actually find it (David McLeod Blvd) a more pleasant version of Two Notch Road in some respects.

- With a population in the 40,000-60,000 range, Sumter is a "big city" by South Carolina standards (in league with Spartanburg and Rock Hill, at least). As such, it can get a sense of the "big fish, small pond" syndrome. It's something I see in the less urban counties across the state, with the possible exception of the upstate (again, the I-85 corridor effect more closely tying together the less populous jurisdictions up there). In fact, I'd argue that Sumter is the most glaring example of this "go it alone" orientation as it is the biggest such fish in the state. The problem is that it is too small and too disconnected to be standing on its own, but too big to be a satellite town (like Camden, Newberry, etc.) or a suburb of Columbia.

- An under-performing public school system. It is probably the most populous county in the state (over 100,000) with no real good public school options (that is not to say there aren't good public school students in Sumter - I have met at least one). Other counties with big towns or smallish cities anchoring them, like Anderson, Spartanburg, Florence, or Berkeley, are connected to one of the state's big-three metropolitan area, and/or have enough transportation infrastructure and economic development to grow a quality public school zone (I'm thinking of West Florence, for example). A middle class family with means will almost certainly NOT send their kids to public schools in Sumter (whereas the same family could easily send their kids to many public schools in Richland, Lexington, and even Kershaw and Newberry Counties.)

Two ideas, besides any required internal change in attitude of locals, I can think that can help in connecting Sumter to Columbia and beyond, and develop its local economy:

1. Convert US-378 to an Interstate (maybe "I-377") toward Columbia. It would be worth a try to justify it on military infrastructure grounds, as it would connect Fort Jackson, McEntire JNG base, and Shaw AFB. Then use that for economic development, in concert with other initiatives (i.e., an interstate by itself won't necessarily do any good - as lots of areas along I-95 can attest). Possibly push that "I-377" toward I-95, which would provide near-seamless, all-interstate connections to Shaw AFB's fellow Air Combat Command centers at Pope & Seymour Johnson AFBs in NC and Langley AFB in VA.

2. I'm not sure how feasible this is, as I'm not familiar with how the military locates its various functions, but if it's possible, move to land some value-added military functions at Shaw AFB, such that it can provide higher-paying jobs, potentially with defense contractors. This is what has enabled Augusta to benefit from its defense sector - it has the Army's Signal Intelligence operation at nearby Fort Gordon, with a very large contractor component.

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by Chi2Midlands

I haven't been down the 321 corridor to Lancaster, but are you seriously saying there less sprawl along I-77? I find that hard to believe - an eight-lane interstate highway is going to be a natural conduit for sprawl...

Perhaps you mean that there is more sprawl potential further south along 321 than along I-77. In that case you'd probably be right - past Rock Hill I really don't see any development into Chester County, whereas Lancaster County, I'm sure is going to really push getting Charlotte-oriented development further down its northern "finger" and down into the heart of the traditionally textile-oriented County (i.e., the City of Lancaster, which is still trying to emerge from its textile heydays). I think that "finger" is the economic hook the county is trying to leverage, especially since technically the Census Bureau hasn't (yet) included Lancaster County in the Charlotte-Rock Hill-Gastonia metropolitan area. Contrast this to Sumter, which as Woodlands implied, doesn't seem to have any real desire of connecting deeper with Columbia (other than perhaps a few Shaw AFB folks who happen to decide to live in Richland County & commute in).

I'm referring to the type of development that you're advocating for Fairfield County leading up into Chester County. Fort Mill is mostly a bedroom community, whereas the panhandle of Lancaster County is the preferred SC suburban location for corporate offices, manufacturing facilities, etc.

As far as Columbia-Sumter collaboration goes, this (http://www.centralsc.org/content/?nid=70&cid=2578 - broken link) is the last thing I heard about it and haven't heard anymore since.

[Woodlands]

Chi2 M

I think you are spot on... Sumter has a lone ranger go it alone approach for various reasons.. that it has yet to try and overcome... The challenge may be to convince all the land owners on 378 to give up their traffic islands for an interstate/limited access highway. I can see all those fruit stands and gas station owners screaming that those dang urbanites in Columbia are trying to destroy our rural sanctuary. Ironically, I think you will have some residents in Lower Richland who would welcome the opportunity to have more development in that end of the County.. but there are alot who wouldnt. I could also see Sumter (business leaders) being against the highway.. because it would make it easier for Sumterites to get to Columbia to shop and for entertainment. This is probably the reason for Sumter isolationist's position since the City's politics are controlled by a handful of wealthy businessmen and developers.


Akhenaton 06- yep this underscores my point... 2006???!!!! That was the last time that the Mayor of Sumter and the former Mayor of Columbia got together on any joint public initiative? What did it yield? If you look at the Board of Directors for this Alliance... NONE are from Sumter as far as I can tell.. They even added a rep from McCormick County. I cant say I blame Columbia or the Alliance for this one.. I think the blame lies at the intersection of HWY 15 and HWY 378