Columbia, a slower-growing/smaller sized Charlotte? (Irmo, Newberry: middle-class, apartment, insurance)

[Alanboy395]

I really think that i would like to live in Charlotte, as it is today. In 2 years when i'm ready to blow the DC area, i'm afraid that Charlotte will turn into another DC area. High housing prices, the apparent illegal problem that NC is having (it's a lot worse here), WAY too much diversity is what i have to deal with today in DC. Would Columbia be a safer bet for things that Charlotte has today?

[waccamatt]

Columbia and Charlotte are totally different cities, they have little in common other than proximity. Columbia is a college town and a center of government and Charlotte is a center of banking. Both cities are growing quickly, though Charlotte is growing more quickly. If you're trying to avoid diversity, I wouldn't recommend either city - maybe South Dakota would be more to your liking.

[Alanboy395]

Originally Posted by waccamatt

Columbia and Charlotte are totally different cities, they have little in common other than proximity. Columbia is a college town and a center of government and Charlotte is a center of banking. Both cities are growing quickly, though Charlotte is growing more quickly. If you're trying to avoid diversity, I wouldn't recommend either city - maybe South Dakota would be more to your liking.

Okay i ain't trying to AVOID diversity. In the DC area a lot of diversity means english is a second language and that will get on your nerves after a couple years, epsically if you work in retail sales, trust me. But maybe i should hold hope out that Charlotte will retain its good qualties when i'm ready to move.

[anonymous]

I wouldn't assume that the "illegal problem" is worse in DC than Charlotte. They don't exactly keep accurate stats on that kind of thing, so I know you're just going by what you've seen and heard.

Illegal aliens tend to work in construction and agriculture - so if DC is growing faster than Charlotte, you might be able to assume what you did.

Anyway, Columbia is similar to Charlotte, but smaller. Columbia is dominated more by the university, and state government. Charlotte is a big banking hub, and has a lot of white-collar jobs and young professionals. In the grand scheme of things, they do have a lot in common.

[Chi2Midlands]

A few thoughts from someone who moved from DC (Springfield, VA to be exact) to Columbia just over 2 years ago:

(1) Yes, Columbia is growing more slowly than Charlotte, but I would characterize it as a steadier, healthy rate of growth. We do have our sprawl and traffic issues (particularly in high-growth suburban nodes such as Northeast Richland County, Irmo/Chapin, and Lexington), but they are absolutely nothing compared to the nightmares of DC (I-495 at rush hour is a distant parallel hellish universe compared to Columbia). Plus, depending on your circumstances, it is much easier to purchase a home within an easy commute of work, and you don't have to go too far from your job to get some extra land or square footage or safety if that's what you need. Or on the other hand if you want a smaller in-town urban home or apartment or condo. There's something for everyone here, all within good commuting distances and at good price points. You can even live an hour or so away from downtown and be in wonderful small rural towns like Newberry or Camden.

Also, I think Columbia is more like a small Raleigh than a small Charlotte, due to the university town/state capital nature of Columbia and Raleigh. If you want to compare Columbia to Virginia cities, imagine if you were to move the University of Virginia to Richmond, and then shrink Richmond down to about half its size. You'd have a pretty good approximation of the size, culture, vibe, and feel of Columbia.

I don't think Charlotte (or Raleigh) will be unliveable in just 2 years. The growth is rapid, but Charlotte also still has more elbow room to grow than DC since there is no large body of water (like the Potomac/Chesapeake/Atlantic Ocean) and the more rugged Blue Ridge mountains are far enough away for it to expand. They are also still building roads at a reasonable pace to keep up (at least to a greater extent than DC - I realize that this will also attract more traffic, but they also aren't ignoring roads, either)

Now, I *DO* think you may start seeing DC or Atlanta-like quality of life problems in Charlotte and Raleigh in, say 10-15 years. While my first choice to move would have been Raleigh if my company had a position open there, the one thing I'm glad about in Columbia is that the growth rate is moderate enough that I don't have to worry about starting and raising a family now but having to uproot them later to escape to somewhere "better". I plan on staying here at least until our house is paid off and my kids are out college.

I think the issue in DC is rapid growth both in terms of sprawl AND density, so you're ending up with ugly New Jersey-like suburbia with more and more "urban" problems (gangs, traffic, etc.) on top sky-high costs of living (especially housing). Who wants to live in a 30-year-old $400,000 town house when you have MS-13 gang members spraying graffitti (or worse, wielding machetes) down the street? That's not to say that Charlotte (or even Columbia) doesn't have similar issues, but they are on a much lower level, and the relative lack of congestion and lower cost of living makes it easier to find even a small space or area for yourself that will be more pleasant.

(2) On "diversity" - it is true we have a much smaller immigrant population in Columbia (compared to Charlotte and definitely compared to DC), but we are surprisingly diverse because of the university and large army base (Fort Jackson). Now, because of the rapid home-building in newer suburban areas (among other reasons), we do have some (illegal) immigrants in the area. South Carolina's Mexican population is in fact one of the fastest-growing in the nation, but it is starting from such a small base that in absolute numbers they are still small. I would estimate Columbia's non-white/non-black population (i.e., Asians, Latinos, etc.) to be on the order of 5-8%.

Let me put it this way: we have enough diversity to keep Columbia progressive and interesting, but it is not so ghettoized such that friction-causing issues like language/culture etc. become huge. In fact, Columbia's African-American population is one of the most well-integrated in the country. Drive though any new Northeast Richland subdivision and you will see plenty of middle-class young African-American and other ethnicities' families. So assuming you are not a knee-jerk bigot (and from your posts, I don't think you are) I think you will find it fine in Columbia. Knee-jerk bigots looking to avoid all minorities should really not ever consider moving to Columbia, even in the "whiter" areas of Columbia. Avoiding diversity here, at least in a general racial/ethnic sense, is not possible (and to me, personally, that's a good thing).

[Alanboy395]

Originally Posted by Chi2Midlands

A few thoughts from someone who moved from DC (Springfield, VA to be exact) to Columbia just over 2 years ago:

(1) Yes, Columbia is growing more slowly than Charlotte, but I would characterize it as a steadier, healthy rate of growth. We do have our sprawl and traffic issues (particularly in high-growth suburban nodes such as Northeast Richland County, Irmo/Chapin, and Lexington), but they are absolutely nothing compared to the nightmares of DC (I-495 at rush hour is a distant parallel hellish universe compared to Columbia). Plus, depending on your circumstances, it is much easier to purchase a home within an easy commute of work, and you don't have to go too far from your job to get some extra land or square footage or safety if that's what you need. Or on the other hand if you want a smaller in-town urban home or apartment or condo. There's something for everyone here, all within good commuting distances and at good price points. You can even live an hour or so away from downtown and be in wonderful small rural towns like Newberry or Camden.

Also, I think Columbia is more like a small Raleigh than a small Charlotte, due to the university town/state capital nature of Columbia and Raleigh. If you want to compare Columbia to Virginia cities, imagine if you were to move the University of Virginia to Richmond, and then shrink Richmond down to about half its size. You'd have a pretty good approximation of the size, culture, vibe, and feel of Columbia.

I don't think Charlotte (or Raleigh) will be unliveable in just 2 years. The growth is rapid, but Charlotte also still has more elbow room to grow than DC since there is no large body of water (like the Potomac/Chesapeake/Atlantic Ocean) and the more rugged Blue Ridge mountains are far enough away for it to expand. They are also still building roads at a reasonable pace to keep up (at least to a greater extent than DC - I realize that this will also attract more traffic, but they also aren't ignoring roads, either)

Now, I *DO* think you may start seeing DC or Atlanta-like quality of life problems in Charlotte and Raleigh in, say 10-15 years. While my first choice to move would have been Raleigh if my company had a position open there, the one thing I'm glad about in Columbia is that the growth rate is moderate enough that I don't have to worry about starting and raising a family now but having to uproot them later to escape to somewhere "better". I plan on staying here at least until our house is paid off and my kids are out college.

I think the issue in DC is rapid growth both in terms of sprawl AND density, so you're ending up with ugly New Jersey-like suburbia with more and more "urban" problems (gangs, traffic, etc.) on top sky-high costs of living (especially housing). Who wants to live in a 30-year-old $400,000 town house when you have MS-13 gang members spraying graffitti (or worse, wielding machetes) down the street? That's not to say that Charlotte (or even Columbia) doesn't have similar issues, but they are on a much lower level, and the relative lack of congestion and lower cost of living makes it easier to find even a small space or area for yourself that will be more pleasant.

(2) On "diversity" - it is true we have a much smaller immigrant population in Columbia (compared to Charlotte and definitely compared to DC), but we are surprisingly diverse because of the university and large army base (Fort Jackson). Now, because of the rapid home-building in newer suburban areas (among other reasons), we do have some (illegal) immigrants in the area. South Carolina's Mexican population is in fact one of the fastest-growing in the nation, but it is starting from such a small base that in absolute numbers they are still small. I would estimate Columbia's non-white/non-black population (i.e., Asians, Latinos, etc.) to be on the order of 5-8%.

Let me put it this way: we have enough diversity to keep Columbia progressive and interesting, but it is not so ghettoized such that friction-causing issues like language/culture etc. become huge. In fact, Columbia's African-American population is one of the most well-integrated in the country. Drive though any new Northeast Richland subdivision and you will see plenty of middle-class young African-American and other ethnicities' families. So assuming you are not a knee-jerk bigot (and from your posts, I don't think you are) I think you will find it fine in Columbia. Knee-jerk bigots looking to avoid all minorities should really not ever consider moving to Columbia, even in the "whiter" areas of Columbia. Avoiding diversity here, at least in a general racial/ethnic sense, is not possible (and to me, personally, that's a good thing).

This is very reassuring. I think i have two strong options for my next home in Columbia and Charlotte. I don't hate diversity, i think i've just had WAY too much of a good thing and coming from an area which i only saw mostly white and black folks (Hampton, VA) i was not prepared for what the DC area brought. As an AA i'm happy to hear about the intergration of AA and other races. So i think the banking hub may make me lean towards Charlotte (finance major) but Columbia is also a strong player.

[Chi2Midlands]

Originally Posted by Alanboy395

This is very reassuring. I think i have two strong options for my next home in Columbia and Charlotte. I don't hate diversity, i think i've just had WAY too much of a good thing and coming from an area which i only saw mostly white and black folks (Hampton, VA) i was not prepared for what the DC area brought. As an AA i'm happy to hear about the intergration of AA and other races. So i think the banking hub may make me lean towards Charlotte (finance major) but Columbia is also a strong player.

Thanks for the reply. I should note that although Charlotte is obviously THE major banking center in the US after New York, Columbia is actually a major small/mid-size financial center as well. You will see several major bank names atop Columbia's downtown skyscrapers (Bank of America, Wachovia, etc.). BB&T also has a major presence in Columbia. There are of course many smaller local and regional banks as well. There are also many finance-oriented jobs with insurance companies (like Blue Cross Blue Shield of South Carolina) and other companies (SCANA, a major energy provider, Palmetto Health, plus the entire Staples accounting operation that was recently moved from Boston & Chicago).

[temeteron]

Originally Posted by Alanboy395

Okay i ain't trying to AVOID diversity. In the DC area a lot of diversity means english is a second language and that will get on your nerves after a couple years, epsically if you work in retail sales, trust me. But maybe i should hold hope out that Charlotte will retain its good qualties when i'm ready to move.

What's wrong with learning a second language? Do you know how many people in Europe know a 2nd language, not just 2nd...but 3rd also. When I was in Italy people knew English, and some knew French, and German too....kind of off topic but I think Americans tend to get lazy when it comes to this situation. Language barriers dont only exist in the states...they exist on every continent...Sao Paolo, Brazil has the most Japanese outside of Japan in the World...I'm sure there are people who must learn Japanese to communicate there...Just something to think about....

[waccamatt]

Tem and I agree on the above point; I didn't want him to think I disagreed with everything he said. Americans are very arrogant when it comes to meeting others halfway as far as languages are concerned.