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Old 01-28-2011, 12:10 PM
 
7,995 posts, read 7,049,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
CAE was SOL from the beginning of that deal.. I mean SWA would either had to have chosen to fly into CAE exclusively because its in the center..(which would make no sense) or if they just wanted to pick two SC cities... CAE and GSP or CAE and CHS..which neither would have likely worked.... or do what they did which was open at GSP and CHS and "bookend" the state thus forcing the CAE folks to choose which airport to go in order to fly SWA Thats not to say GSP or CHS did not have better number/industry/tourism etc than CAE but their locations were just icing on the cake...Hopefully it does open the door for another discount airline.. Vision not withstanding.. to fly into CAE
This goes back to my original post, before this thread got off topic with personal slams.

What is being done at CAE?
We see the erosion in passenger numbers, year after year. The fact it is now about to drop below 1 million. The largest metro in the state should not have the number 4 airport in passanger numbers.

I would think there would be a major city campaign or a major citizen campaign.....you know like a social webpage "Bring JetBlue to Columbia" type thing. Local business leaders banding together and throwing out ideas. The business community offering subsidies. Stories in The State newspaper driving the charge. I see little of that happening. I am also VERY curious what happened to the 10 million that CAE offered SWA and SWA declined. Seems that would have been offered to another low cost carrier or current carriers to expand services.

Anyone have creative ideas?
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:56 PM
 
2,918 posts, read 1,758,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsupstate View Post
This goes back to my original post, before this thread got off topic with personal slams.

What is being done at CAE?
We see the erosion in passenger numbers, year after year. The fact it is now about to drop below 1 million. The largest metro in the state should not have the number 4 airport in passanger numbers.

I would think there would be a major city campaign or a major citizen campaign.....you know like a social webpage "Bring JetBlue to Columbia" type thing. Local business leaders banding together and throwing out ideas. The business community offering subsidies. Stories in The State newspaper driving the charge. I see little of that happening. I am also VERY curious what happened to the 10 million that CAE offered SWA and SWA declined. Seems that would have been offered to another low cost carrier or current carriers to expand services.

Anyone have creative ideas?
Your original post had nothing to do with what Wood said. And, don't take anything personal, nothing is personal, I have no idea who you are. But, it is no secret that you do not like Columbia and a majority of your posts related to Columbia are negative, factually or not. A lot of people bring up good points about the economy around Columbia without creating silly threads designed to diminish a region, not sure why you chose to do the opposite. If you don't like an area, move on.

As for SWA, I agreed with where they went. They were not going to all three cities in SC and other factors lead them to a decision to serve CHS and GSP. If you think that it speaks to Greenville's superiority, then tell us why.

But, you could actually have made a compelling argument for chosing Columbia because it is the center of the state. Using the theory that SWA is counting on traffic from CAE, Asheville and others at GSP, locating in CAE would have allowed SWA to cover GSP & CHS using less aircraft and on the ground personnel. But, I do think other factors led them to CHS and GSP.

I would like to know what is being done at CAE as well. The last time I heard, a leading aviation consultant was there to help the airport with ideas. But, I doubt a Facebook page will make much of a difference. And, the purpose of a newspaper is not to drive the charge. Most newspapers are not used as city cheerleaders.
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Old 01-28-2011, 01:15 PM
 
430 posts, read 926,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
open at GSP and CHS and "bookend" the state thus forcing the CAE folks to choose which airport to go in order to fly SWA(
Southwest actually did something very similar when it moved into Upstate New York. They fly into Buffalo and Albany, forcing roughly similarly-sized Rochester and Syracuse, which sit in between Buffalo & Albany on the New York State Thruway (I-90), to a bookend. Southwest's market catchement areas have historically been larger than the legacy network carriers, with people willing to drive 90 minutes to even 2-3 hours to get on their flights. In SC it was a no brainer, and yes I do think GSP and CHS have more "dynamic" economies compared to CAE despite similar enough sizes and per-capita incomes.
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Old 01-28-2011, 01:34 PM
 
7,995 posts, read 7,049,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi2Midlands View Post
Southwest actually did something very similar when it moved into Upstate New York. They fly into Buffalo and Albany, forcing roughly similarly-sized Rochester and Syracuse, which sit in between Buffalo & Albany on the New York State Thruway (I-90), to a bookend. Southwest's market catchement areas have historically been larger than the legacy network carriers, with people willing to drive 90 minutes to even 2-3 hours to get on their flights. In SC it was a no brainer, and yes I do think GSP and CHS have more "dynamic" economies compared to CAE despite similar enough sizes and per-capita incomes.
While I agree about Southwest bookending, the odd thing in that equasion is the fact they did not skip over GSP and serve CLT and ATL instead. Both CLT and ATL "bookend" Greenville with a short drive on 85. I know Southwest will be in both CLT and ATL with their purchase of AirTran, yet they still chose to serve GSP, with no cash incentives. CAE offered 10 million and they were still turned down by Southwest. Is that 10 million still available to offer JetBlue or Frontier?
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:28 PM
 
2,918 posts, read 1,758,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi2Midlands View Post
Southwest actually did something very similar when it moved into Upstate New York. They fly into Buffalo and Albany, forcing roughly similarly-sized Rochester and Syracuse, which sit in between Buffalo & Albany on the New York State Thruway (I-90), to a bookend. Southwest's market catchement areas have historically been larger than the legacy network carriers, with people willing to drive 90 minutes to even 2-3 hours to get on their flights. In SC it was a no brainer, and yes I do think GSP and CHS have more "dynamic" economies compared to CAE despite similar enough sizes and per-capita incomes.
Thanks for the example. Hope CAE looks at a Frontier or Jetblue to fill in the void. In the interim, has SWA's model been holding recently with people driving far distances to fly? The legacy carriers seem to have better (relative to where they were) balance sheets to fight back, even US Airways is posting profits. I have never flown SWA but, if I am driving to an airport more than an hour out of town, I would have to have a direct flight. For a Columbia passenger who must travel to another airport, imo, it is a no brainer to make an hour drive to CDI for the large choice of direct flights at a similar cost.

As for the economies, GSP and CHS are doing well because of an uptick in manufacturing and Boeing. BMW should continue to drive the upstate as the Spartanburg plant has not seen its last expansion. CAE may lag a year or so but it has bagged a couple of nice projects recently. The surprising thing about the demographics is that the three are so close. For years, I would have guessed that GSP had better demographics and growth patterns by a wide margin. However, if you look at the numbers, CAE has outperformed the others. But, as evidenced by this board, Greenville is very very confident, I wish Columbia had half as much confidence.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:31 PM
 
2,918 posts, read 1,758,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsupstate View Post
While I agree about Southwest bookending, the odd thing in that equasion is the fact they did not skip over GSP and serve CLT and ATL instead. Both CLT and ATL "bookend" Greenville with a short drive on 85. I know Southwest will be in both CLT and ATL with their purchase of AirTran, yet they still chose to serve GSP, with no cash incentives. CAE offered 10 million and they were still turned down by Southwest. Is that 10 million still available to offer JetBlue or Frontier?
Any theories on why they chose GSP? Do you think GSP has a better business model that Charlotte and Atlanta can't match?
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
8,914 posts, read 13,473,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSP101 View Post
Any theories on why they chose GSP? Do you think GSP has a better business model that Charlotte and Atlanta can't match?
I remember reading in the G-News back in May that they chose GSP because of the large amount of corporate headquarters located in the upstate area and the lack of a major LLC at the airport. Southwest likes to draw in passengers to the airports they serve from a 2-3 hour radius. That's why they are located in Raleigh but not Greensboro. Of course the Airtran merger will change that a good bit unless they start dropping lots of cities.

Southwest also said they didn't go to Columbia because they thought the airline wouldn't be successful there even with the incentives. I don't know if it was the failure of past LLC's at the airport that led them to this conclusion or something else. Maybe they will change their minds and decide to locate there with the Airtran merger. Who knows.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:57 PM
 
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I hope they didnt use any of the $10M to lure Vision Airlines.. Someone said that they had like only two flights a week to Destin, FLA.. which I wouldnt think would be worth offering any incentive.. no? Its kindof odd that they just came out of the blue to serve CAE after Alligiant pulled out.. there was no drum beat or lead article like "Columbia is close to luring a new discount airline" unless I missed it... I assume that a portion of the $10 M could be used for ad campaigns and to make improvements at the airport?? Maybe they need to give a couple of $$ to CMRTA to develope a REAL Airport Shuttle that runs to and from downtown non stop...but then again most hotels have their own....
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:04 PM
 
7,995 posts, read 7,049,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g-man430 View Post
I remember reading in the G-News back in May that they chose GSP because of the large amount of corporate headquarters located in the upstate area and the lack of a major LLC at the airport. Southwest likes to draw in passengers to the airports they serve from a 2-3 hour radius. That's why they are located in Raleigh but not Greensboro. Of course the Airtran merger will change that a good bit unless they start dropping lots of cities.

Southwest also said they didn't go to Columbia because they thought the airline wouldn't be successful there even with the incentives. I don't know if it was the failure of past LLC's at the airport that led them to this conclusion or something else. Maybe they will change their minds and decide to locate there with the Airtran merger. Who knows.
Even though Southwest is a low cost carrier, they rely heavily on business travelers, which makes sense they would locate at GSP as the headquarters and regional offices in the area generate a good deal of business travel. CAE simply doesn't generate the same kind of air traffic.

I'm sure the failure of Spirit and the failure twice of Allegiant at CAE also weighed heavily, while the success of Allegiant at GSP weighed heavily in the decision.

So we all know the issues at CAE, but my question remains, what is being done about it? I've sensed no enthusiasm coming from CAE to change things. When GSP was going after Southwest for years, we heard about it. GSP got the citizens involved.

So any ideas (creative ideas) what CAE is doing or can do?
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:10 PM
 
3,447 posts, read 4,494,599 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsupstate View Post
Even though Southwest is a low cost carrier, they rely heavily on business travelers, which makes sense they would locate at GSP as the headquarters and regional offices in the area generate a good deal of business travel. CAE simply doesn't generate the same kind of air traffic.

I'm sure the failure of Spirit and the failure twice of Allegiant at CAE also weighed heavily, while the success of Allegiant at GSP weighed heavily in the decision.

So we all know the issues at CAE, but my question remains, what is being done about it? I've sensed no enthusiasm coming from CAE to change things. When GSP was going after Southwest for years, we heard about it. GSP got the citizens involved.

So any ideas (creative ideas) what CAE is doing or can do?

Well I guess it starts with the Executive Director and the Airport Authority.. which I presume is appointed by the Counties and the City of Columbia. I can agree that they may need to do more to get both the business community and residents behind the airport. Residents and Businesses need to demand from the Airport Board via the elected officials that appointed them.. develop a plan/vision and promote it. If there is already such a plan or vision.. then they just need to start promoting/implementing it. Granted if the numbers dont work right now.. then they just dont work.. I think that many Columbians have resigned themselves to the fact that they will travel to other airports to travel and only use CAE if they find a deal.. I think that is why there is no public outcry..People have to get really outraged over the issue before they begin making demands on the Politicians and thus pressure the Airport ED and the Board. If gas goes to $4 a gallon and parking goes up at CLT then maybe residents will get outraged and demand that more will be done at CAE
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