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The story of CAE doesn't end with SWA's decision. In fact, SWA's takeover of Airtran could very well mean CAE gets their service after all, since it's supposed to be a boon to smaller airports. If not, the future isn't all encapsulated in gsupstate's crystal ball.
And for what it's worth, I can't imagine what it would be like to sit around constantly looking for any tidbits of information I could find to go off about how the tidbit means the demise of a city, county or metro I don't even have a stake in. It's as though someone has to incessantly publish negative things about another city to keep trying to reassure himself and to keep trying to convince all others that his adopted home (the city, county and metro with no shortcomings or worries of any kind) was the right choice.
The story of CAE doesn't end with SWA's decision. In fact, SWA's takeover of Airtran could very well mean CAE gets their service after all, since it's supposed to be a boon to smaller airports. If not, the future isn't all encapsulated in gsupstate's crystal ball.
And for what it's worth, I can't imagine what it would be like to sit around constantly looking for any tidbits of information I could find to go off about how the tidbit means the demise of a city, county or metro I don't even have a stake in. It's as though someone has to incessantly publish negative things about another city to keep trying to reassure himself and to keep trying to convince all others that his adopted home (the city, county and metro with no shortcomings or worries of any kind) was the right choice.
Go off topic much?
Back on topic of CAE, didn't realize Airtran was planning to fly there. Link?
Back on topic of CAE, didn't realize Airtran was planning to fly there. Link?
I can start a new thread about the guy who lives to tear down one other city while never bringing up anything negative about his own if you want me to.
I only inferred that CAE could benefit from SWA's takeover of Airtran and their plan to serve smaller airports. We'll have to wait and see.
The story of CAE doesn't end with SWA's decision. In fact, SWA's takeover of Airtran could very well mean CAE gets their service after all, since it's supposed to be a boon to smaller airports. If not, the future isn't all encapsulated in gsupstate's crystal ball.
And for what it's worth, I can't imagine what it would be like to sit around constantly looking for any tidbits of information I could find to go off about how the tidbit means the demise of a city, county or metro I don't even have a stake in. It's as though someone has to incessantly publish negative things about another city to keep trying to reassure himself and to keep trying to convince all others that his adopted home (the city, county and metro with no shortcomings or worries of any kind) was the right choice.
You have to be careful who you pay attention to on these boards. There are a lot of good posts on this site, sadly, there are some who google information and put it out here with no understanding of what it means (and a lot of it is driven to make a city/region look bad). For these people, ignore is the best option. I would be embarassed for Charlotte if some of those posters were from here, glad they live elsewhere.
Back on topic, CAE may have a few lean years but, there are options on the board like you mentioned. And, Columbia's core demographics are too good to be ignored. Until CAE gets better air service, for those in Cola who insist on driving to GSP for a flight, a much better option is Charlotte. Fares are similar, if not lower, and you will get there a lot sooner because of the direct flights. It makes no sense to drive 1.5 hours to connect through Baltimore, Nashville or the handful of other connecting airports.
To clarify a point about economic development related to SWA...I agree air service is important for recruiting businesses, it is just not the #1 tool when looking for sites, especially in a manufacturing oriented area. I am sure there will be some chamber businesses who will claim that they are coming because of SWA but, when competing for jobs with other cities, an educated workforce and the ability to get talent is the biggest driver. Greenville's chamber president even mentioned this earlier when talking about proposed government cuts. Other factors are obviously tax rates, local transportation (increasingly including public transportation), quality of life etc....But, as it relates to air service, direct flights (most businesses do not pay the posted airfare anyway) are the biggest recruitment tool. Unfortunately, because of the low population and proximity to Charlotte and Atlanta, the SC airports will never have an abundance of direct flights.
Unfortunately, because of the low population and proximity to Charlotte and Atlanta, the SC airports will never have an abundance of direct flights.
Never?!? What a ridiculous and short-sighted statement.
As the SC metros grow, the proximity to larger metros will become less important. And that was precisely my point earlier in this thread about CAE. As Columbia grows, the demand for better and more affordable airline service at CAE will increase, resulting in airlines taking notice. Airlines will be able to justify a decision to add or increase service from CAE. At that point, the flight options out of CLT, GSP, and CHS will become less detrimental to CAE.
Last time I checked, there are a cluster of busy airports with plenty of direct flights in the Northeast. It doesn't seem to hurt Philadelphia that New York and DC are close by in either direction. On a smaller scale, it doesn't seem to hurt any of the NYC airports that there are two other major airports very close by, as well as several smaller ones in the metro. Why? Demand.
Never?!? What a ridiculous and short-sighted statement.
As the SC metros grow, the proximity to larger metros will become less important. And that was precisely my point earlier in this thread about CAE. As Columbia grows, the demand for better and more affordable airline service at CAE will increase, resulting in airlines taking notice. Airlines will be able to justify a decision to add or increase service from CAE. At that point, the flight options out of CLT, GSP, and CHS will become less detrimental to CAE.
Last time I checked, there are a cluster of busy airports with plenty of direct flights in the Northeast. It doesn't seem to hurt Philadelphia that New York and DC are close by in either direction. On a smaller scale, it doesn't seem to hurt any of the NYC airports that there are two other major airports very close by, as well as several smaller ones in the metro. Why? Demand.
Are you kidding??? First, notice the phrase "abundance" of direct flights, never said they would not have any but, I don't see GSP having 100 daily unique direct flights anytime soon. The board at GSP must feel similar as they have said the $100m expansion would be sufficient for 25 years. Last time I checked, they were not adding a lot of gate space.
Secondly, how are you able to draw any similarities between Philadelphia, DC and NYC with Greenville, Charleston, Columbia or even Charlotte? If, for instance, Greenville had a population of at least 6m as these metros do, then I would agree there would be a large number of flights. But, with a metro population in the 800-900k range, the math is exponential to get to 6m anytime over the next 30 years. And, that is exactly what I said earlier. I don't see that as short-sided just realistic.
Never?!? What a ridiculous and short-sighted statement.
As the SC metros grow, the proximity to larger metros will become less important.
It's also short-sighted to believe that Atlanta and Charlotte will stop growing completely while Greenville, Cola, etc. play "catch up". Atlanta has the busiest airport in the world and an emerging global portal. Charlotte is extremely busy for a domestic-oriented airport and has long grown over the "hump" required to sustain a decently-sized connecting hub. Both are highly visibile and well-known business hubs. They have hit hard times, but no more so than us in SC. It's also important to note that housing and other cost-of-living metrics in those cities aren't that different from SC ones (aside from relatively minor things like some taxes in NC vs SC, and if that's the case a business can easily move to Fort Mill to stay in the Charlotte region instead of moving to Cola or Gville).
Using what I think are reasonalbe growth rates in a good economy and my understanding of the political-economic-social culture in this state, at best I think SC cities can grow into solid mid-sized cities in about 30 years that are good domestic "nodes" similar to Raleigh-Durham, Nashville, Indianapolis, etc. That means metros of about 1-2 million at best. That would still give us the possibility of becoming "focus cities" with non-stops to places like the West Coast and perhaps Canada/Mexico/Caribbean. But it would still take a game-changing leap in the mentaility of city/metro boosters. I think Greenville has a leg up on Cola in that regard because it is a more ambitious, business-oriented city (hence why I think SWA, among many other national businesses, chose Greenville over Columbia, at least at first).
I can start a new thread about the guy who lives to tear down one other city while never bringing up anything negative about his own if you want me to.
Way off topic dude. But, if you think posting factual links is "tearring down", then have a talk with The State newspaper or the people at the airport who post the statistics on the website or Southwest Airlines who is flying to other cities, etc, etc. Sorry, but facts are facts.
Way off topic dude. But, if you think posting factual links is "tearring down", then have a talk with The State newspaper or the people at the airport who post the statistics on the website or Southwest Airlines who is flying to other cities, etc, etc. Sorry, but facts are facts.
Still off topic for a minute....Thanks for posting statistics from The State and other websites. But, in the context of what a lot of your posts are about, I think CData has a point. It would be foolish to go through the over 5k posts you have on this board but, when a poster starts a thread that uses a death to try and make a city/university look bad, it is a litte over the line. I don't think it is a secret that you do not like Columbia or USC, not everyone likes the same thing, but, the purpose of this board is for talking about development, real estate, etc....not bashing another region.
As for SWA, I would not use them as a barometer of a region's health or vitality. It does not have to be repeated but, SWA is not in the largest market in the south, Atlanta or the largest in the Carolinas, Charlotte. If you think that SWA chose Greenville over Cola because it is a superior market, are you saying the same for Atlanta and Charlotte? If so, please provide some statistics or newspaper articles for support...or even Wikipedia, you like that one as well.
For what its worth, if I were SWA, based on the fact that the three markets are similar in most relevant statistics, I still would have chosen GSP & CHS as well. That is no slam on Cola but all things being equal, Charleston has Boeing which is the largest supplier to SWA, never hurts to have good relations with suppliers as Boeing did when they moved the corporate HQ to Chicago next to United. Combined with the Charleston decision, GSP's $100m renovation could do nothing but help SWA locate to the upstate.
Still off topic for a minute....Thanks for posting statistics from The State and other websites. But, in the context of what a lot of your posts are about, I think CData has a point. It would be foolish to go through the over 5k posts you have on this board but, when a poster starts a thread that uses a death to try and make a city/university look bad, it is a litte over the line. I don't think it is a secret that you do not like Columbia or USC, not everyone likes the same thing, but, the purpose of this board is for talking about development, real estate, etc....not bashing another region.
As for SWA, I would not use them as a barometer of a region's health or vitality. It does not have to be repeated but, SWA is not in the largest market in the south, Atlanta or the largest in the Carolinas, Charlotte. If you think that SWA chose Greenville over Cola because it is a superior market, are you saying the same for Atlanta and Charlotte? If so, please provide some statistics or newspaper articles for support...or even Wikipedia, you like that one as well.
For what its worth, if I were SWA, based on the fact that the three markets are similar in most relevant statistics, I still would have chosen GSP & CHS as well. That is no slam on Cola but all things being equal, Charleston has Boeing which is the largest supplier to SWA, never hurts to have good relations with suppliers as Boeing did when they moved the corporate HQ to Chicago next to United. Combined with the Charleston decision, GSP's $100m renovation could do nothing but help SWA locate to the upstate.
CAE was SOL from the beginning of that deal.. I mean SWA would either had to have chosen to fly into CAE exclusively because its in the center..(which would make no sense) or if they just wanted to pick two SC cities... CAE and GSP or CAE and CHS..which neither would have likely worked.... or do what they did which was open at GSP and CHS and "bookend" the state thus forcing the CAE folks to choose which airport to go in order to fly SWA Thats not to say GSP or CHS did not have better number/industry/tourism etc than CAE but their locations were just icing on the cake...Hopefully it does open the door for another discount airline.. Vision not withstanding.. to fly into CAE
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Thats not to say GSP or CHS did not have better number/industry/tourism etc than CAE but their locations were just icing on the cake...Hopefully it does open the door for another discount airline.. Vision not withstanding.. to fly into CAE
