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Old 10-22-2013, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Star Rooster View Post
Hmmmm. Interesting. I've become somewhat more interested in the topic of urban and suburban development over the last few years, maybe because I'm now married with a child (and another one on the way), and am more concerned than ever with the quality of schools, having a yard for the kids to play in, etc. I've recently stumbled onto the writing and research of Joel Kotkin, here's an article he wrote on the subject a few weeks ago:

America's Fastest-Growing Counties: The 'Burbs Are Back | Joel Kotkin
What he's calling "burbs" aren't designed the same way they used to be. The main attraction for people will be a sense of place that occurs when development looks like a village or small city. New housing and jobs will be clustered around dense cores, the city core being the main nucleus overall, with satellite cores playing their role as well. While there will be people who opt for the satellite versions, the bulk of the people will choose to live in the larger, more dense cores. The only other option would be more traffic congestion over a larger portion of the metro. What we came to accept as the status-quo is not only unsustainable, but it is not what people younger than 30 want on the whole, and research indicates there is no magic age, nor will there be one at which they all of a sudden decide they want to return to the burbs. And the empty-nester baby boomer generation will be joining them in the main urban cores.
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 912 View Post
The bold comment is plain scary. That is pretty much a clarion call to the death of the American paradigm.

The "young" do not make up as much of the population as one may think, nor are they that creative or innovative. Most getting out of school can't find jobs (thanks Barry! ). They're not more intelligent; if anything, they're more spoiled & have more of a sense of entitlement.

Here's a tip: Most cities lose their young people anyway! Where do they go? To other cities. Things have a way of netting themselves out. Yes, I do think many cities will infill in their cores & that will attract youth (and crime), nothing new here. But at some point, people change. We want wives & kids. We want a lawn to play with out children on & to maintain. We want good schools away from the crime that (will always) inhabit inner cities. Yes, weekends are about massive consumerism at the suburban town centers.

Those that preach at the altar of the rise of the cities tend to be leftists who are simply infusing their politics with their theories about how we should "collectively" live. Not for me, Comrade.
I agree and disagree.

As someone in this generation I completely agree that we are far different from generations before us in that we are waiting longer to settle down and get married, we are graduating from college (those of us that do) and then figuring out what were doing rather than the other way around, and we are more entrepreneurial so I couldn't agree more that our generation is moving to cities they want to live in and then finding a job rather than moving to a city for a job and what attracts my peers and I to a city is a vibrant downtown with cool bars, cool shops, and somewhere we will find others our age. Something I have noticed recently is how the 20 somethings that have recently graduated from college treat life more like it still is college rather than how generations before us did and cities that have a large concentration of young people in a particular area are more likely to give off that "college after college" vibe which is very attractive to us.

Now on the flipside of this, even though we want to pro-long those days of toga parties and Thirsty Thursdays whether through grad school or our first jobs, we still want to settle down and have a family someday and those suburban communities that none of us want to live in now will become the place to be for us when that time comes. Me for example am 25 and single, graduated a little over a year ago and live downtown. Though right now you couldn't pay me to live in Irmo, but in about 7 years or so after I have probably met that special someone and married her and we are having kids, that will be one of the only places ill be looking.

I see why this model is very relevant due to the difference in our generation. Though I am not this way in my thinking (I moved after I got a job and am hard working in that job) a lot of my peers don't really conform to that like those before us. If there is a job they could have out of college that would require them to move somewhere they didn't want to, there is a good chance they wont take it where in generations before us, they would have jumped all over it and worked their way up. Another thing to this point is that young people in generations before us would live in those suburban apartment complexes because that was close to their job, now they want to live in the Vista, even if they work in the Northeast and even though we dont want to live this "college after college life" forever and will one day move to the burbs, that constant cycle of folks behind us fill it in and without that vibrant downtown attracting young people, that cycle ends and growth of a city can be halted dramatically, even in the suburbs.
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColaClemsonFan11 View Post
I agree and disagree.

As someone in this generation I completely agree that we are far different from generations before us in that we are waiting longer to settle down and get married, we are graduating from college (those of us that do) and then figuring out what were doing rather than the other way around, and we are more entrepreneurial so I couldn't agree more that our generation is moving to cities they want to live in and then finding a job rather than moving to a city for a job and what attracts my peers and I to a city is a vibrant downtown with cool bars, cool shops, and somewhere we will find others our age. Something I have noticed recently is how the 20 somethings that have recently graduated from college treat life more like it still is college rather than how generations before us did and cities that have a large concentration of young people in a particular area are more likely to give off that "college after college" vibe which is very attractive to us.

Now on the flipside of this, even though we want to pro-long those days of toga parties and Thirsty Thursdays whether through grad school or our first jobs, we still want to settle down and have a family someday and those suburban communities that none of us want to live in now will become the place to be for us when that time comes. Me for example am 25 and single, graduated a little over a year ago and live downtown. Though right now you couldn't pay me to live in Irmo, but in about 7 years or so after I have probably met that special someone and married her and we are having kids, that will be one of the only places ill be looking.

I see why this model is very relevant due to the difference in our generation. Though I am not this way in my thinking (I moved after I got a job and am hard working in that job) a lot of my peers don't really conform to that like those before us. If there is a job they could have out of college that would require them to move somewhere they didn't want to, there is a good chance they wont take it where in generations before us, they would have jumped all over it and worked their way up. Another thing to this point is that young people in generations before us would live in those suburban apartment complexes because that was close to their job, now they want to live in the Vista, even if they work in the Northeast and even though we dont want to live this "college after college life" forever and will one day move to the burbs, that constant cycle of folks behind us fill it in and without that vibrant downtown attracting young people, that cycle ends and growth of a city can be halted dramatically, even in the suburbs.
If "you couldn't pay you to live in Irmo," why would you want to do that to your children? A school isn't good just because it's outside of a city. It's good because parents help make it good. As more people your age who live in the city have children, won't you start talking among yourselves and just stay put and create a demand for new schools where you are?
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
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Anyway, the results of today's "Game Day" will be revealed Thursday at The Zone at Williams-Brice Stadium. The public is invited. 4 to 7 p.m.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
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The State's take on the Midlands Reality Check so far.

“As we look at the growth over the next 30 years, the West is no longer the destination of choice,” said Mitch Silver, American Planning Association president, who addressed the planners during a luncheon. “For whatever reason, the American public, and immigrants for that matter, are choosing the South.

Read more here: Planning exercise creates Midlands of tomorrow | Business | The State
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbiadata View Post
If "you couldn't pay you to live in Irmo," why would you want to do that to your children? A school isn't good just because it's outside of a city. It's good because parents help make it good. As more people your age who live in the city have children, won't you start talking among yourselves and just stay put and create a demand for new schools where you are?
Because it is not what I am looking for at this stage in my life since I am young and have no wife or kids. While there certainly are great places to grow up downtown, just like the speaker said the vibrancy of a downtown is based off of the younger folks thus who the amenities in a downtown will appeal to.

I grew up in Irmo and I can tell you that I was blessed to have the opportunity to grow up there. I lived in a nice subdivision with plenty of other kids, went to the best schools in the state, and had a very fortunate childhood and I most certainly want that for my kids as well. Not saying you cant have that downtown, but that is what Irmo is designed for. Downtown you have so many different groups and since the abundance of people downtown are not the ones with kids and family and again like the speaker was saying, is the main focus of downtowns, Irmo or Northeast are much better places to raise kids. I can bring my kids downtown and enjoy the amenities offered, while still living in Irmo where they can play in the yard, surrounded by other kids and families and go to much better schools and with that focus in recruiting younger people, the majority of residents that move downtown wont be concerned with improving the schools and having big nice yards and will rather see their tax dollars spent in other ways.

Believe me, I am a HUGE downtown proponent and completely agree that you cannot have a vibrant city/metro without a vibrant downtown or else it will turn into a suburban wasteland, but at the same time, nice suburban areas are also vital as well. The aspect of suburban apartment complexes such as those found on Harbison or around the Broad River Rd area are dead and the focus of putting those younger people downtown instead is great, but the ideas of quality suburban developments such as Lake Carolina, Saluda River Club, etc, are still very relevant and necessary in that mix as well.

Last edited by ColaClemsonFan11; 10-23-2013 at 08:27 AM..
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
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If I had gone the child route, he, she or they would have gone to Dreher.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbiadata View Post
If I had gone the child route, he, she or they would have gone to Dreher.
And that is a great school as well, im not saying that you cant have children and live downtown, I am just saying suburban areas are just better suited for children with planed neighborhoods and without the occasional rift raft that even the nicest areas of downtown cant escape since the nice areas are intermingled with some rough areas. Like even Dreher is beside that neighborhood where you have a bunch of college students, then a block over a real sketchy area. It doesn't mean at all that Shandon is not a great area or Dreher isnt a good school, they most certainly are, but aside from that, you have to deal with issues that you are sheltered from (for the most part) in the suburbs. A friend of mine went to AC Flora which is another great school, but he was picking at me saying I was just that "sheltered Irmo kid."

Again I think each area is great and very important and in many ways, the downtown is more vital in that it not only is the focal point, but also draws in the young people that get a job, have fun for some years, find a spouse, have families and move to the suburbs. Without a vibrant downtown, that cycle is broken and the whole area suffers, suburbs and all, but I dont see this as an Irmo vs Downtown thing, I see them complementing each other very well.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColaClemsonFan11 View Post
And that is a great school as well, im not saying that you cant have children and live downtown, I am just saying suburban areas are just better suited for children with planed neighborhoods and without the occasional rift raft that even the nicest areas of downtown cant escape since the nice areas are intermingled with some rough areas. Like even Dreher is beside that neighborhood where you have a bunch of college students, then a block over a real sketchy area. It doesn't mean at all that Shandon is not a great area or Dreher isnt a good school, they most certainly are, but aside from that, you have to deal with issues that you are sheltered from (for the most part) in the suburbs. A friend of mine went to AC Flora which is another great school, but he was picking at me saying I was just that "sheltered Irmo kid."

Again I think each area is great and very important and in many ways, the downtown is more vital in that it not only is the focal point, but also draws in the young people that get a job, have fun for some years, find a spouse, have families and move to the suburbs. Without a vibrant downtown, that cycle is broken and the whole area suffers, suburbs and all, but I dont see this as an Irmo vs Downtown thing, I see them complementing each other very well.
I think the idea of being sheltered is more of a neighborhood thing than a Suburb thing IMO. Does anyone think the kids that live in Friarsgate(one of the original white flight Columbia neighborhoods) in Irmo are sheltered? I think not. I live in Shandon, my 3 kids go to one of the best elementary schools in the state (Rosewood). We eat/live/play/shop/worship in one of the wealthiest/highest income demographic areas in the state and enjoy it very much. FWIW I hear Irmo/Irmo high has a major gang problem. There are currently no gang issues at Flora or Dreher that I'm aware of.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
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The gangs have pretty much moved to the burbs. I just wish they would stay there on weekend nights.
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